josherer
27 posts
Joined 08/2012
£1/2 live 9-handed.
LAG solid reg with a stack of £400 makes it £15 in an unopened pot. Folded round to me in BB. I have villain covered and have AA. I flat. Thoughts? I figured that since the pot is already heads up and there isn't a lot of dead money in the middle that a 3 bet will look super strong from me, and I don't want him to just fold out all of his worse hands.
Flop is 7s5c2s (I don't have the A of spades). I check he bets £25 I make it £75, he calls. Do you like this check raise? Is check calling OK for pot control?
Turn is 5s. What's your line on the turn?
Assume you lead 120 and he calls (having checked his cards).
River Qc, what's your line?
Posted 9 months ago
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sweetjazz3
1999 posts
Joined 02/2007
josherer
27 posts
Joined 08/2012
Hmm. I think you're probably right about always 3betting AA in that spot pre. I've been playing a bit of HU online so that's skewed my thought processes a bit!
When he calls the flop I really have to take all non-suited A-high hands out of his range, even one with the As. I've played with him a fair bit and he'd give me enough credit there with a check raise to give up.
I end up shoving the river and he snap calls with 77. This may be results oriented but I reckon as played the river has to be a check fold. I bet the turn basically because I thought there where a lot of big pair hands with one spade which he'd peel one off with. The only other hands that stay in the pot after the flop check raise are a made flush on the turn or a set which has housed up on the turn.
I fell for his card-check on the turn, obv a false tell I'd never seen him use before. Made me think there was some value shoving the river to get called by KsKx JsJx type hands. However, in reality he's far too good a player to call a river shove with those hands because my range by the river is SO strong. Obv QsQx also has got there by the river, but even if he does have my dream hand for him to have (KsKx) he'll check behind the river. So basically what I'm saying is I can check the river knowing that he'll NEVER bluff me there. Why? Cos the only hands he can have by that point which are worse than mine are the KKs and the JJs which will always just chekc behind. If he bets I can fold.
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sweetjazz3
1999 posts
Joined 02/2007
I mean if he's actually good and gives you credit, then you need to be attacking / bluffing him more in your overall game. Obviously, if he's a good LAG, you shouldn't be trying to get into HU pots with him. But when you do, you have to use your solid image plus "willing to overplay good one pair hands" to win some pots.
For example, he raises in EP, three people call and you flat in the BB with 33. Flop comes K72r, you check, he cbets, everyone else folds. Could be a good spot to c/r bluff if you think (a) his range contains a lot of hands worse than Kx that will fold immediately or (b) you think he'll you so much credit that he'll immediately fold his Kx hands, giving you credit for AK or a set. Obviously, don't do this all the time, but use your image if the opponent is thinking and capable of folding to an "obvious nit" (your perception, not your actual description
) postflop.
You should still be 3betting AA in the given hand and you just need to add enough bluffs if he folds too much to balance your range. If he doesn't fold, then just value 3bet and enjoy the profits.
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josherer
27 posts
Joined 08/2012
What about the flop check raise?
Do you like a check-call better? - rationale being that it keeps the air in his range to 2barrel, plus pot controls vs sets and flush draws so when a flush card hits the turn you're not in a gross spot OOP in a really bloated pot?
I seem to be spewing off a lot when I have an overpair on a drawy board OOP, trying to charge draws but they always seem to show up with sets. Maybe I should take a more pot controlly line to avoid being in these difficult spots so often?
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josherer
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Appreciate the stuff about needing to have a bluff range against him too. Trust me, I've bluffed him plenty. It's just that in this hand, because there's no dead money in the pot (very rare in this game) and he opens for 7.5x he knows my OOP calling range verse him is gonna be pretty narrow, so he's not really gonna think I'm fucking about too much when I check raise him on the flop if you see what I mean...
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sweetjazz3
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Big Owl
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SchFerreira
310 posts
Joined 11/2011
Thing is, if your 3b range is going to be really tight and face up in a spot like this, then you're probably better off flatting your entire range against a competent villain . The fact that the "solid reg" opened for 7.5x makes me think he's not good enough to exploit the tightness of your 3b range so I would be making it 48-ish here like always.
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medic2038
299 posts
Joined 07/2009
I think I'd definitely be 3 betting pre here. Like SJ said even with a tight image you're going to get looked up (with a very polarized range to any opponent that's observant).
I'm not sure I like the check raise. I think leading out yourself is the better option.
When you check raise you can get him to fold his overpairs, that he might call, or raise you with himself.
Josh,being 200bb deep I think a river shove is a CLEAR mistake.
However I think this river is a check/call, or a bet/fold.
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NinaWilliams
821 posts
Joined 12/2007
If he really does fold out almost his entire range, then just 3bet trash a couple of times in the BB so that when you do get AA/KK (maybe even lower for value depending on how often you've 3betted him and how recently) you can 3bet for value.
If this this is the case, 3 betting your trash and flatting your big hands is going to be the most exploitative adjustment.
I'm fine with flatting here to be honest. Even if he calls 3 bets too much, there could be more value in showing up with this hand postflop.
Flop, without a cr dynamic, I'd prefer a flat. You rep a much weaker range by calling and this is a board that villain will be looking to double barrel pretty frequently.
As played, I like a river b/f. I'd make the bet on the small side because a bigger bet will likely only get called by better hands,
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StueysKid
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SchFerreira
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StueysKid
969 posts
Joined 11/2009
While OP didn't specify "LAG" type (where and how is he laggy?), I presume this will apply to the majority of his thinking.
I believe a queen here will bet for value when checked to (again, under the assumption he's laggy - though it's a little different in that I'm expecting him to bet for value). In that sense, may as well let him do the betting.
When we check, it looks like perhaps we're giving up. Assuming LAG was chasing on the turn (looking at his cards), he can easily think his hand can't win at showdown and a check can look like a busted straight draw or overcards that missed. Beating a busted straight draw is easy, beating overcards might not be - so his missed draws ought to have more propensity to bluff the river when checked to here. He may even shove it, in which case, I'd call.
Anyway, any line you take will require assumptions to be correct - so it's really in the assumptions.
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Buck_Neket
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Joined 03/2011
I'm not a fan of flatting PRE, then x/r the flop. If you're tight, you've turned you're hand face up to most players will basic hand reading skills.
Sometimes I will flat preflop with hands like this, but I'm looking to check call 3 times against a player that will barrel at least 2 streets (ie a LAG).
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