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After reading a lot of posts about turning weak Ax hands into bluff catchers; I decided to do the same. This hand came up and I was wondering if I should've played it differently.


S1 Hero (SB) $255.00
S2 V2 (BB) $75.00
S3 $120.00
S4 $210.00
S5 V1 $610.00
S6 $100.00
S7 $170.00
S8 $200.00
S9 $60.00

S3 calls $2
S4 calls $2
S5 calls $2 (V1)
S6 folds
S7 calls $2
S8 calls $2
S9 folds
S1 calls $1 (Hero) holding A4o
S2 checks (V2)

Flop ($14): AAJtt
S1 checks (hero)
S2 checks (V2)
S3 checks
S4 check
S5 bets $10 (V1)
S7 folds
S8 folds

S1 calls $10 (Hero)
S2 calls $10 (V2)

Turn ($44): offsuit 8

all check

River ($44): offsuit 4

Hero ?????

After reading a lot of posts about turning weak Ax hands into bluff catchers; I decided to do the same. This hand came up and I was wondering if I should've played it differently.

Hearing other people doing something isn't a good enough reason for you to do it. Why/when would you turn an Ax into a bluff catcher?

Also - at what point are you bluff catching in this hand? Preflop? That makes no sense, 'bluff catching' is a meaningless term here. On the flop you hit pay dirt, so you aren't bluff catching here. Turn - I don't know what's going on, you can't really bluff-catch a check. River - you boat up; do you plan to check to villain1 who cbet once and then seems to have given up on the hand?

I think you're way too FPS here. Just bet the river after it checks through and pray you get raised. I guess I can see checking the turn if you think Villain1 is going to bet a wide range again, but it's not likely.

Instead of talking about 'bluff catching because others do it' let's talk about the hand. Why are you calling preflop? What's your plan 6-way with A4o?

Why are you checking the flop? What range do you give villain1 for betting in to 6 people? What do you think BB's range is for calling?

When it checks through on the turn, what range do you think BB and villain have? Did it change after you see them both check?

Given your analysis so far, what should you do on the river?

Finally - the way you laid out the hand is a little confusing. 7 players to the flop but you only show action on three. What position is Villain1 in? Did he bet when 6 people checked through or was he UTG? This is all important - be sure to lay out the hand in a way that clearly shows the order of everyone's actions (even people who just c/f).

Hearing other people doing something isn't a good enough reason for you to do it. Why/when would you turn an Ax into a bluff catcher?

Also - at what point are you bluff catching in this hand? Preflop? That makes no sense, 'bluff catching' is a meaningless term here. On the flop you hit pay dirt, so you aren't bluff catching here. Turn - I don't know what's going on, you can't really bluff-catch a check. River - you boat up; do you plan to check to villain1 who cbet once and then seems to have given up on the hand?

I think you're way too FPS here. Just bet the river after it checks through and pray you get raised. I guess I can see checking the turn if you think Villain1 is going to bet a wide range again, but it's not likely.

Instead of talking about 'bluff catching because others do it' let's talk about the hand. Why are you calling preflop? What's your plan 6-way with A4o?

Why are you checking the flop? What range do you give villain1 for betting in to 6 people? What do you think BB's range is for calling?

When it checks through on the turn, what range do you think BB and villain have? Did it change after you see them both check?

Given your analysis so far, what should you do on the river?

Finally - the way you laid out the hand is a little confusing. 7 players to the flop but you only show action on three. What position is Villain1 in? Did he bet when 6 people checked through or was he UTG? This is all important - be sure to lay out the hand in a way that clearly shows the order of everyone's actions (even people who just c/f).

Q1: Seeing other people post about it is a good enough reason to experiment. It lends credence to the theory. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the concept; I'm seeing "bluff catching" as a blanket term that would include allowing my opponent to value own himself with a Jack or a flush draw that backs into a pair.

Q2. Going from what I thought the definition of bluff catching is; I would be bluff catching postflop. I'm OOP, and betting the flop would get folds from everything except aces that are ahead. check calling is letting me represent a wider range (FD, weak jacks KQ).

Q3. As for the river, I bet, I wanted to know what amount players I respect often bet here with the goal of calibrating my own play.

Q4. The pot is laying me 15:1 preflop. The BB is not raising without a tight range. I think that enough justification to complete.

Q5. I already mentioned why I checked postflop, I'm assigning V1 a range including A2-AT, suited jacks, flush draws Broadways. V2 is drunk, and I'm assigning him the same basic range.

Q6. After the turn checks through I'm eliminating all Ax hands from both players ranges.

Sorry about the way this hand is laid out, usually I'm more diligent. I was just lazy this time out. Villain1 was in 3 to my left and bet into half the second half of the table.

Even though this is a paired board, I think it's wet enough that you can bet out and expect to get called by worse a decent percentage of the time. If it were something like AA9 rainbow, then maybe your initial thought to make your hand a bluff catcher would be more applicable.
If you bet out on your board you're going to get called by a lot of gut shots and flush draws, some jacks, and obviously Ax. Double barrel and you'll still be called by a lot of draws and some stubborn jacks. If you get raised you can fold because almost literally no one is going to try to bluff you here in a 1/2 game. If you happen to get called on the river, that's bonus but you've already gotten your 2 streets from draws and whatever else was going to call you.
As you played it, I'd probably bet like 30ish but it's entirely dependent on the villains. I have some that I'll check to all day because I know they can't resist betting their busted draws. Some I'd bet like $10 to get paid off by a jack and some I'd bet $30 because they think $10 looks too much like a value bet. My standard against unknowns would probably be to go big because they probably won't fold much more of their range to a bigger bet than they would to a $10 bet.

Thanks, zegota. That was really helpful.

RESULTS: I bet $25 and got called by a flush draw that backed into the 8.

If he's station enough to call with his 8, then he was for sure calling flop and turn bets by you with his flush draw. With this many draws you can't give free cards. Betting and getting a fold is better than not betting and letting a hand get there that was never going to give you any money unless he hits and has you beat.