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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by BigBadBabar (High Stakes)

BBB: would you comment on the Merge limit rake. GiantBuddha says LHE is unplayable below 10/20.
http://www.dragthebar.com/poker-blogs/2011/11/why-merge-should-lower-their-fixed-limit-rake/

I apologize if this is addressed somewhere I didn't find.

BBB: would you comment on the Merge limit rake. GiantBuddha says LHE is unplayable below 10/20.
http://www.dragthebar.com/poker-blogs/2011/11/why-merge-should-lower-their-fixed-limit-rake/

I apologize if this is addressed somewhere I didn't find.

i agree the rake is high compared to other sites, and a good rakeback deal is definitely necessary if you want to maximize your earn. i'd guess probably 2/4 and 3/6 would be unbeatable without any rakeback deal. as far as i know the rakeback deals offered are better comparably than on stars or ftp (you had to get stars supernova to get into the 40% area for rb afaik, and ftp was 27%). there were lots of great underground merge deals for a long time, and i believe merge is cracking down on those now, but still offering 45%. and maybe there are underground deals still that i don't know about. i'd expect many of the people already on there to have a good deal.

so yeah, much higher rake, somewhat better rakeback, somewhat better games, all in all not as good a situation as on other sites, imo. i wouldn't agree with unplayable. from browsing around tableratings i see lots of winners at 5/10, for example. when GB says unplayable, i'm guessing he may mean they're not worth it for a non-USA-based LHE pro who's selecting amongst a large number of networks, and in that case I'd agree with him. there are lots of other LHE games at better rake around the internet. for those of us in USA, not so much.

and on merge, as with elsewhere, game selection and seat selection are always going to be really important. just like on other sites, i see a large number of grindy rakeback pro types, then some solid winners, then some big losers. getting out of the rake trap is always going to be useful on any poker site or in any casino, if possible, all things being equal.

good to see you on here btw

FWIW I did some looking around

I'm calculating Merge rakes at roughly:

15/30 6m: about 1.05 BB/100

10/20 6m: about 1.7 BB/100

5/10 6m: about 3 BB/100

3/6 6m: about 4 BB/100

2/4 6m: about 4 BB/100

and figure grinders are getting on average 45+ % rb? so almost halve those rakes to get what they're truly paying. the recreational players i'd guess on average have a better setup than on stars, just because merge had/has flat rates, so they're at 35 or whatever. on stars you really don't get much back at the lower tiers.

comparable Stars rakes:

15/30 6m: about 1.05 BB/100

10/20 6m: about 1.5 BB/100

5/10 6m: about 2.5 BB/100

3/6 6m: about 2.66 BB/100

2/4 6m: about 2.5 BB/100

and figure grinders are on average in the 30something % rb range? maybe low 40s if hit supernova? the recreational players next to nothing. so take a little less than half off of these to see what they're truly paying.

so we can see 2/4 and 3/6 are a real difference, 5/10 a bit, and it seems to flatten out above that. even accounting for better rakeback deals, yes, it's higher overall rake on merge than on stars. i don't think it's overly onerously so, though. and unfortunately some of us don't have too many options

given that the games are quite good at 5/10 (as can be seen in this series), and that you can buy money on merge at a slight discount (~95cents on the dollar AFAIK), maybe depositing smaller amounts and trying to take shots in good 5/10 games would be a better option for people than trying to grind it up from lower stakes. this is assuming you're comfy with the money and skill level of 5/10, obviously. for the folks just playing for fun at micros stakes, keep doing that.

It looks right just for 5 handed plus but stars have HU rake cap 50c up to 10/20 and 1dollar in 15/30+ and 3 and 4 handed rake cap on stars is also lower I think. It must make huge difference.

Thanks. I'm stuck on Intertops (cake) because I have no roll to speak of. I'll re-eMerge if Full Tilt agrees to stake me.

It looks right just for 5 handed plus but stars have HU rake cap 50c up to 10/20 and 1dollar in 15/30+ and 3 and 4 handed rake cap on stars is also lower I think. It must make huge difference.

good point, i'd forgotten to look up all the new stars rake changes

Thanks. I'm stuck on Intertops (cake) because I have no roll to speak of. I'll re-eMerge if Full Tilt agrees to stake me.

there are staking sites out there like parttimepoker , and others. if you're interested in getting a few bucks on cake or merge let me know and i'll try to help. i still play a bit on cake but there aren't many games

"The rake is so high that playing Limit Holdem below $10/$20 is an unsustainable endeavor," is me being slightly hyperbolic.

"They’re suffocating their traffic by preventing anyone from flourishing," is me being precise. Also, "There are many high-volume players who won’t play on Merge because of the rake." My main point was that they could have more traffic and make more money by charging a lower rake.

$5/$10 is marginally playable, and $2/$4 and $3/$6 are virtually unplayable in all but the absolute best games. Anything below $2/$4 is truly ridiculous on Merge.

BBB, you say that the rakeback deals offered are better than on Stars. That's true for the low-volume player who's new to the site, but not true for:

* Heavy grinders who can get about 60% RB on Stars through SNE
* Moderate grinders who were SuperNova on Stars and only get the standard 35% on Merge
* Recreational players who don't have a clue what rakeback is

Overall, it looks like RB on Merge is really only great for those who grind a moderate amount and have under the table deals (which Merge is trying to eliminate).

The games on Merge are frequently outstanding (probably because of the sportsbook), so if they charged a remotely reasonable rake, it could be a pretty good place to play (ignoring any deposit/withdrawal concerns). Hopefully I can talk them into lowering the rake.

GB, I think we agree on all major points

Time Link to 00:14:56

Being out of position, I would just call unless you are playing against a very passive player who won't check raise if you don't hit and bet the turn, or would be afraid to bet if you check the turn.