Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

Was playing some 8/16 live the other day and thought the following hand merits some discussion:

Hero is a well known regular at this particular casino with a quite tight but very aggressive image. Villain is an older gentleman who generally plays weak but isnt afraid to bet his hands in short handed pots. I have not played more then 30 hands hu wih this particular opponent so it is possible my read with him isn't as correct as I believe it to be.

utg-mp1 fold and villain limps in for 8
folded to hero who is on btn with Jd8d
sb completes, bb checks.
flop: 4d4sQc
sb checks, bb checks, villain checks, hero checks.
turn: 4d4sQc7d
sb checks, bb bets 16, villain calls, hero calls, sb folds
river: 4d4sQc7dQd
bb checks, villain bets 16, hero raises to 32, bb folds, villain folds.

My thought process for this hand:
I briefly considered to raise this pot to get it to the flop hu but opted to just call. I have position, I can see the flop cheaply versus weaker opponents.
I consider a bet on this flop to be a little bit ambitous. It could work if I had raised preflop but at this point I have a backdoor straight and flushdraw. I also believe it is possible a pair could be good. thus I check behind.
turn comes the 7d. In hindsight it is easy to spot that bb was simply firing a bluff, but when villain cold calls I feel he is rather weak. I would be shocked if he has as good as A7 there. In my mind he has a hand similar to 67, 78. possibly a fd. With the hands I had played with him he would have bet out with a Queen or a 4. Thus I lean towards him having a 7 at best. Again, a raise seems fishy and raising on the turn here would result in 2 folds at best and I would have swelled a pot with Jack high.
River comes the Queen of diamonds. Double pairing the board. Now the average field in this spot check calls with an Ace high here.

When bb checks it indicates to me that he as simply trying to buy the pot on the turn. It is possible he has a 4 and he is timid but he showed no confidence at any point. When villain bets the river I put his overall range on Ax, A7, weaker 7x's, 4x, Qx, and f\d's. Now villain does bet his hands. If he had a legitamite hand I believe he would have bet or raised at a one point before the river with a Q or 4. Thus I put him on 7x,s and if he is creative enough it is possible that he has an Ace. When I raise my flush I am both raising as a bluff and for value. By calling I cannot lose more to any full houses or better flushes. By raising I am getting a 4 to fold.... probably somewhere around as high as 10% of the time. I'm not entirely sure on that number. I see people fold bottom full houses but not all too often. The biggest reason why I raise is I get Kx and Ax diamonds to fold.

Should I just call in this spot or is it better to raise to be getting better flushes to fold, possibly some 4x's. With how the action went I would have been rather shocked to see a full house tho...

I am raise folding the river.

I dont like much about this hand tbh.

I think you should be raising this hand always pf vs a weak player who limps. Those old guys are going to c/f anytime they miss and you will get him to fold alot of better hands with a flop bet. I understand the hand plays relatievly well in a multiway pot but raise/cbet flop is bread and butter vs weak old guys.

On the flop i think you should throw a bet out there. Old dude never has anything and BB will obv have 100% of his range. You can back into some decent draws/pairs

As played im prob not raising the turn, you rep nothing. Fwiw, if i was BB id consider checking a big % of my value range on this flop, so depending on how he thinks, he may not always be super weak.

How many bets are in the pot on the turn? Folding is prob fine if you arent getting 4-1 or whatever it is

On river i think id just call in a live game unless you know villain very well, in which i like raise/fold.

4 small bets from pf, and two big bets form the turn. I am getting 4-1 with one player to act behind me on the turn

I agree bb can have 100% of his range betting on the turn there. When he bets and gets called twice and checks to us on the river... That is giving up.

cool, ya then its easy turn call obv. Sorry, im rubbish at adding up all the bets. Gotta play more live poker

Ya np. Havent played much online since 2010, mostly live now. 3-1 I fold. I calculated that when I made the decision to call.

I should definately raise that pf tho. Puts my opponents to a decision. not me. Many of the players in this field are very showdown bound which can be a problem.

i think probably if you didn't have an overlimp range at all here preflop (meaning you raised anything you wanted to continue with, and folded the rest) it'd be a petty solid strategy.