Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

Game is full 20, I open the HJ with A4cc, maniac lag who's name rhymes with "insane" 3! CO, I call hu.

A87r

I c/c

9c giving me NFD

I c/r he 3!

Our history is he thinks I'm straightforward and easy to play against. A problem I have is he value bets me very thin and very easily when I c/c 3x, so I delayed action til the turn. Now I am considering turning my hand into a bluff.

I don't get the turn CR and I don't get why you'd turn this to a bluff against a maniac. Then again, I'm not familiar with your villain.

The turn didn't actually give you any more equity. You may be well ahead of villain's range, but I'd put you at 55% against his continuing range (vs your CR) here. A good portion of that will 3! for value, he's going to have all the sets and two pairs and JT too in his range.

What's wrong with good old wa/wb when you have the perfect hand for that? If he valuebets thin, he'll bet his hand for you a lot.

I don't get the turn CR and I don't get why you'd turn this to a bluff against a maniac. Then again, I'm not familiar with your villain.

The turn didn't actually give you any more equity. You may be well ahead of villain's range, but I'd put you at 55% against his continuing range (vs your CR) here. A good portion of that will 3! for value, he's going to have all the sets and two pairs and JT too in his range.

What's wrong with good old wa/wb when you have the perfect hand for that? If he valuebets thin, he'll bet his hand for you a lot.

against a real maniac i assume he's doing it for value and not for bluff

Now I am considering turning my hand into a bluff.

But to make him fold what?
I wouldn't think a manical lag is ever folding AXo here, nor would most non-maniacs if they think AXo is worth 3betting IP on the turn and get capped because they have top pair on a pretty dry board and your repping what? Maybe JT, A9 and some slowplayed sets and 2ps (specifically A7/A8 and maybe 78s/89s ) but that's a very slim range when considering your unlikely to be waiting to c/r the turn with most of those most of the time.

I'm not sure you have the value you need to C/R the turn here? What would you estimate his range is for 3!'ing preflop and barreling this turn? Even if you have the value to C/R the turn, I don't see why we can't just C/R good rivers instead, especially if he will value bet us super thin.

The turn didn't actually give you any more equity.

I would think this turn improves his equity, especially against hands he is behind on the flop. Did you notice OP mentioned we picked up the NFD on the turn?

I would think this turn improves his equity, especially against hands he is behind on the flop. Did you notice OP mentioned we picked up the NFD on the turn?

Yes, stoved it with the NFD. I was quite surprised. It gives hero lots of out when behind but also gives villain's range lots out outs (or puts him ahead) the times hero was ahead already.

against a real maniac i assume he's doing it for value and not for bluff

Yeah...wtf

If I flop TP against a maniac and there's any kind of draw present I'm going to buckle up and put in action somewhere.

Based on the OP's reads, I think delaying until the Turn(even if we don't turn a FD) is an excellent choice.

Even if you have the value to C/R the turn, I don't see why we can't just C/R good rivers instead, especially if he will value bet us super thin.

Would you ever check/call the Turn and then check/raise the River with QcTc UI?

BBB: "against a real maniac i assume he's doing it for value and not for bluff"

I read this

jesse8888: "Now I am considering turning my hand into a bluff."

as meaning he's going to cap and try to fold out something better than his hand.

i thought we were talking about the initial turn checkraise

i don't like the idea of a turn cap

Would you ever check/call the Turn and then check/raise the River with QcTc UI?

I don't really see how this is relevant. Yes, there will be a few hands villain will check back on the river, but I don't see villain starting to check back TP hands on the river just because the back door flush came in.

Maybe you can clarify what your trying to say.

I don't really see how this is relevant. Yes, there will be a few hands villain will check back on the river, but I don't see villain starting to check back TP hands on the river just because the back door flush came in.

Maybe you can clarify what your trying to say.

I was trying to point out that we can't semi-bluff the River, so it's very easy for even the worst players to play against a much more defined range.

On the Turn, our check/raises can represent anything from pairs to draws to pure bluffs, which makes it more difficult for our opponents to play against.

I was trying to point out that we can't semi-bluff the River, so it's very easy for even the worst players to play against a much more defined range.

Are you saying villain is just going to bet/fold a club river? If so, I disagree that we can't C/R bluff the river. You can't have it both ways.

Are you saying villain is just going to bet/fold a club river? If so, I disagree that we can't C/R bluff the river. You can't have it both ways.

I never said anything about a club river...

You recommended waiting to check/raise a safe River card w/ A4, and I questioned if you'd ever take that line with a busted draw(such as QTcc on A879Xcc).

Maybe I just suck at explaining. My thoughts sounded much better in my head.

Ok, I understand were we went wrong. I was recommending C/R "good" rivers, not "safe" rivers. So basically C/R'ing any club or 4 river. I don't really like C/R'ing a blank river with this hand.