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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

I think we should just raise the flop and get the SB out right now or charge him to make a huge error if he does call with a gutshot or a Q. I do not like waiting for the turn as much because we allowing the SB to play correctly and see one card for just one SB vs 2. In addition, we could get seriously hurt if we raise on the turn and MP then 3 bets us. It would be tough to fold because the pot is now large. We need to punish SB and we need to do it NOW.

Thought this was a real tough spot, we talked about it in the video for awhile and my conclusion was there were pros and cons.

I would raise here. We are likely up against a bs. hand and want to get value from the hand. If he bets flop, turn and THEN river we are usually in big trouble. It is unlikely that the villain is going to triple barrel often enough to make our calldown better than raising the flop, betting the turn and then reevaluate on the river.

I strongly disagree, this is so bad for our range (mostly peel hands), AQ high is the perfect bluff catcher, its not good enough to value raise

Chris, you said you would raise with AK but not AQ, to me these two hands are the same on this board. I would raise as down as A10. You simply crush his stupid donking range and need to own him for playing bad. Calling is terrible, especially when he is like A2 good?

Once he bets that river I think he highly polarizes himself, I'm not even 100% sure raising AK is good tbh

The river can get very ugly for us if certain cards like an 4, a club or even an A comes on the river. You cannot think you could just call down if those cards come. If this is the case, then you are allowing villian to get away with not ONLY catching a 6 outs that would of folded on the turn or made a bad mistake on the turn by calling against us. In addition, you get to charge draws like 98 with a 8c for example, which is quite huge. I bet this turn and fold to a CR.

All I'll say is you have to check something, if we are triple barreling are non-showdownable hands, and value betting this, what's left?

Time Link to 00:19:34

Tough spot when MP caps the flop 3-way after you've slightly underrepresented your hand strength by not 3-betting the flop. You have to assume that MP thinks SB could have anything and he might be hoping to force you out by presenting you with another two SBs cold.

Given your relative passivity on the flop I think you have to bet the turn when it's checked around to you and payoff the SB if he puts more bets in.

I strongly disagree, this is so bad for our range (mostly peel hands), AQ high is the perfect bluff catcher, its not good enough to value raise

Yeah I agree. No need to create difficult situations by raising with a perfect bluff-catcher.

Once he bets that river I think he highly polarizes himself, I'm not even 100% sure raising AK is good tbh

Agree with this. A lot of fish will mindlessly c-bet their bluffs and check a lot of their 8x/flopped overpairs.

Time Link to 00:47:15

I think the trouble with bluffing the riv against these passive guys is they tend to have a lot more value combos in their k/c k/c range than a more aggressive player. Agree you need to bluff *some* hands on the river in which case you need to know your own range well and bluff the KQ if it's about the worst hand you can hold in this spot.

Personally I might be more inclined to bet the turn with worse overs like JT while checking the turn with KQ and hoping for a free showdown.

I think the trouble with bluffing the riv against these passive guys is they tend to have a lot more value combos in their k/c k/c range than a more aggressive player. Agree you need to bluff *some* hands on the river in which case you need to know your own range well and bluff the KQ if it's about the worst hand you can hold in this spot.

Personally I might be more inclined to bet the turn with worse overs like JT while checking the turn with KQ and hoping for a free showdown.

Can you walk me through this a little bit more? I'm finding myself a bit lost in these spots where we have to make a plan for a variety of river contingencies.

On the turn, ~25% of my range is is K-high or worse (66+, A7s+, A9o+, K9s+, KTo+, QJo, Q9s+, JTs-76s). Everything above that should be a bet for value/protection, right (at least against this opponent)? Incidentally, KQ is the best hand in my turn range that is a dog to a top 85% range.

So of those KQ and lower hands, ~30% (or 8% total) have a single club. I've been working under the assumption that slotting maybe QJ with a club and 76 for triple barrels is enough to balance the value bets we'll be making on the variety of river situations we get into with our range. Adding JT (no fd) and the like to barreling range feels like overkill.

I do think my K-highs (no club) can slot for turn checks now that I've put some thought into the hand. But I have no clue if my perception of "balance" in this situation is truly balanced for the variety of river scenarios I face.

Also as a gift for you and everyone else, these are the HU cave paintings that James282 and I did way back in early 2005.

http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=headsup&Number=1614385&Searchpage=1&Main=1614385&Words=James282+gonores&topic=&Search=true#Post1614385

http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1623433&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1

I strongly disagree, this is so bad for our range (mostly peel hands), AQ high is the perfect bluff catcher, its not good enough to value raise

If we are trying to play balanced, then yes, you are right. However, this person is a fish, hence he donked into us on the flop. Good players do not donk flops unless they have a really strong read and even then most would still CR on the flop or turn. However, playing exploitative allows us to raise flop for value and and bet turn for value as well vs hands that we beat. On the other hand, if he donks flop, we call, he donks turn, we call, and when he donks on the river we are in bad shape, usually. Many players, especially live, do not just tripple barrel because it is not in their nature, they might donk on the flop and turn and just give up on the river.

All I am saying is when this person bets on the river we are not in good shape.

Once he bets that river I think he highly polarizes himself, I'm not even 100% sure raising AK is good tbh

But I mean it is not like we cannot fold to his b/3bet on the river. I feel like we are freerolling this person and we need to allow him to make mistakes. By not raising he gets away with better marginal hands, weak aces, and bluffs. I like allowing people to make mistakes this is a good spot to do so.

Agree with this. A lot of fish will mindlessly c-bet their bluffs and check a lot of their 8x/flopped overpairs.

perhaps I am wrong on my assumptions, but it just seems that my read is that even idiots would bet weak A and pay off our raise.

I think this is totally backwards. When someone is semibluffing too much you don't 3 bet them more, you call down more. If the turn is 2s then his range is weighted towards value hands, and we have that range in pretty bad shape w TPTK

This is true, but we get enough value on the turn if he decided to raise with a bluff and we do get third bet on the turn because he is never folding. If we bet the turn and he raises with a draw and barrels of on the river it is still 3 bets vs. the three bets that we get on the turn. In addition, if we b/3 bet turn, we could just check the river and hope he bluffs.

Furthermore, he could easily raise with a hand that we totally crush on the turn like 8 with a gutshot or even K8. This would allow us to get maximum value from him.

Time Link to 00:10:47

I don't really love a c/r here given what I suspect his river betting distribution looks like. I doubt very much if villain has a lot of overpairs in his range given preflop and flop play (although I probably would if I were villain). Nor do I think that he has many 9s given the turn play and the strength of our line. So I guess I really prefer a c/c although it seems nitty.

Time Link to 00:24:48

I'm leaning toward a bet here. It just seems so likely that we have the best hand and even if we get c/r, I think it isn't a total disaster given the size of the pot and the relative spazziness of the players involved. It's pretty important to realize that underrepping your hand could cause MP to overplay something weak thinking that he can get you to fold and get the pot heads up in position.