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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

I appreciate all the comments so far, and I'm glad there's consensus that these hands were all played somewhere between controversially and awfully (I tend to agree that these hands all sucked, and I'm basically watching me stammer through my thought process in this video and cringing repeatedly now that I'm another month into my development).

The one hand I actually somewhat liked, and still do to some extent is the last one (K6 vs the loose passive), and I'm surprised this one is being singled out as the worst. I struggled in the video to explain my thought process, and I'm still not sure I can explain it well, but here goes...

When an opponent such as this takes a weird, off-tempo line, it's been my experience that it is very often with an eye toward eliciting a fold. On 95%+ of hands played with an opponent like this, it's very easy to answer the "what's his range here" question. Whenever that question becomes difficult/impossible to answer, I usually hypothesize the player's range skews weak.

I'm not saying that I've never seen a player turn over aces up (or a flopped set, which I think is actually sorta likely) in this spot when he goes c/c -> donk, but I am saying I've found it rare (at least in the past) that this player type is willing to put himself in a situation where he's putting in 3bets on the big streets with one pair. In other words, if he bet the turn with one pair, with or without draw, I think those hands are not willing to put in 3 bets to see a showdown (though Ax is getting to showdown). I just obviously think it's unlikely he takes this line with 1 pair after seeing him play a few dozen 1 pair hands without doing anything nearly as brazen as donking on an ace.

I guess the short explanation is "he's hyper-polarized, has a million combos of nothing/draws, and every single poker player in the world gets a hair up their ass every now and then to try to bluff", but that doesn't really capture my thinking. Sadly, it's the best I can do right now.

But you have king high?

But you have king high?

without any draw whatsoever

Just want to say a general comment that both Doug and I felt this video was a tough one, mostly the hands seemed to be difficult spots and hard to make a ton of nice happy general conclusions about. We have recorded EPs 2 and 3 at the time of me writing this and I feel they have gotten stronger and stronger, so stick with us and see if you agree

I actually loved this video, despite my comments about the hands. I actually believe it is kinda nice to have someone screw some hands so bad that it is almost dis questing to look at it and not scream! On the other hand, like you've said in your other post, you simply were not HARSH enough on Doug. You need to be rude, at times, in order to get your point across and for others to learn from you. Otherwise a person who is trying to learn the game can go "Hmmm... K6o, let me raise here on the turn as a bluff because a passive player just donked on A turn and I think 'he is full of shit'" This is simply unacceptable and should not be encouraged in any way possible. I HOPE I am not being harsh, but this is the way I feel and hope you and others can agree.

I just know how hard it was for me to learn the game years ago when one "quality" instructor does one thing and another "quality" instructor does a totally oppose move for pretty much same reason(s).

But you have king high?

This is the it and the all of the entire series, IMO. 2006 Doug would say "Who cares what I have? If I raise, this guy isn't getting to showdown often enough, and he's going to be exploited." Returning to the game now, I recognize that the discussion is now "what are we doing with sections of our range?" and the series is loosely based around the idea of me getting better at explicitly thinking about and discussing these types of concepts. I was capable of thinking about range and balance years ago, but explicit discourse about those ideas often took a back seat to discussions about "how do I win this hand, right here, right now?" Does that make any sense?

I think that's why I liked this hand better than the other 3 in this episode. All four of the hands are bad from a balance perspective, but this hand is just... weird, and I think that lends the hand more to the "who cares what I have?" approach.

I actually loved this video, despite my comments about the hands. I actually believe it is kinda nice to have someone screw some hands so bad that it is almost dis questing to look at it and not scream! On the other hand, like you've said in your other post, you simply were not HARSH enough on Doug. You need to be rude, at times, in order to get your point across and for others to learn from you. Otherwise a person who is trying to learn the game can go "Hmmm... K6o, let me raise here on the turn as a bluff because a passive player just donked on A turn and I think 'he is full of shit'" This is simply unacceptable and should not be encouraged in any way possible. I HOPE I am not being harsh, but this is the way I feel and hope you and others can agree.

I just know how hard it was for me to learn the game years ago when one "quality" instructor does one thing and another "quality" instructor does a totally oppose move for pretty much same reason(s).

Would you be interested in a video where Chris goes through my log of hands played and picks out the worst ones and really eviscerates me?

Time Link to 00:00:29

so does Doug have a serious case of 'stack envy' ??

$16 K to sit at the table with? He must have long arms to reach around all those chips and see his cards...



which

Time Link to 00:00:29

Doug,

thanks for putting yourself out there...

Could you discuss a little bit about game selection?

You mentioned wanting to move up, playing several limits, etc... So when you walk in, what is your general plan? Are the games always plentiful enough at Commerce for you to get the game of your choice? Do you game select? Is your goal of 100/200 a bankroll management decision or your own skill level assessment, or table selection... or some of each?

Is Commerce your only choice, if not, what else goes into it? For instance, would you perhaps NOT want to be the 'regular' at the table, so you go to other places to mask your play somewhat. Or does it really matter at these stakes, do the players pick up tendencies faster than at lower levels? Or is the pool so small you get outed as the 'pro' quickly anyway?

tanks,

which

Doug,

thanks for putting yourself out there...

Could you discuss a little bit about game selection?

You mentioned wanting to move up, playing several limits, etc... So when you walk in, what is your general plan? Are the games always plentiful enough at Commerce for you to get the game of your choice? Do you game select? Is your goal of 100/200 a bankroll management decision or your own skill level assessment, or table selection... or some of each?

Is Commerce your only choice, if not, what else goes into it? For instance, would you perhaps NOT want to be the 'regular' at the table, so you go to other places to mask your play somewhat. Or does it really matter at these stakes, do the players pick up tendencies faster than at lower levels? Or is the pool so small you get outed as the 'pro' quickly anyway?

tanks,

which

Game selection is more important to me than most people, and in the month or two since I've been in LA, I've played in a number of different rooms at all times of the day to try to find the best games for me. The old adage is mostly right, in that you can't go wrong with Commerce when you're playing mid-stakes in LA.

Trying to hide yourself as a pro is practically impossible in LHE, but it's not because the player pool is small. It's mostly because no one under the age of 35 plays LHE cash games recreationally. Young people are assumed to be decent players until proven otherwise, but it really doesn't matter.

As far as moving up, I've never set concrete goals for when or why I would consider moving up. It's a combination of all the factors mentioned and then some.

I really dislike a raise here against any sort of thinking player. What hand, exactly are we representing when we c/r the turn here? a straight? Well we've already said that we're c/r all oesd on the flop so T8 is out of the question. I'd guess we have a very easy fold with 66, we don't open any 85s type hands from the HJ, and on the flop and we're going to c/r all TP+ hands in our range. This is exactly the kind of spot where, if I'm the button, I'd never fold any showdownable hand that I bet on the turn, which, as you guys pointed out accurately, includes every showdownable hand in my range. In fact, if I'm the button, I'm certainly considering 3betting every single hand that I bet the turn with either for extra value, a free showdown, or as a semibluff intending to barrel the river.

That's not to say this play will never work, but you need to read your own hand here and realize your c/r range on the turn is basically all semibluffs and misplayed hands imo.

+1

Time Link to 00:25:06

This turn call is really bad.

This turn call is really bad.

This confuses me. You prefer a raise?

This confuses me. You prefer a raise?

hrm. I don' really like this either. If only there was a way to not put money in the pot. Like the surrender option in blackjack or something.

NW I discuss why I like a turn call quite a bit during the video, I still think its a call watching it again, tons of spade draws and random spews make sense to me. We have nut no pair vs a non passive player, I need more convincing

Doug is one of my old-school 2+2 heroes. I remember he made some posts where he would play another top player HUHU (Schneids and James282 I think) and then they would offer dual commentary on the session. Prob. 2004ish if my memory serves me well

I really dislike a raise here against any sort of thinking player. What hand, exactly are we representing when we c/r the turn here? a straight? Well we've already said that we're c/r all oesd on the flop so T8 is out of the question. I'd guess we have a very easy fold with 66, we don't open any 85s type hands from the HJ, and on the flop and we're going to c/r all TP+ hands in our range. This is exactly the kind of spot where, if I'm the button, I'd never fold any showdownable hand that I bet on the turn, which, as you guys pointed out accurately, includes every showdownable hand in my range. In fact, if I'm the button, I'm certainly considering 3betting every single hand that I bet the turn with either for extra value, a free showdown, or as a semibluff intending to barrel the river.

That's not to say this play will never work, but you need to read your own hand here and realize your c/r range on the turn is basically all semibluffs and misplayed hands imo.

I agree with this. I can't really see any credible value combinations here, depends on how loose you are opening in HJ maybe you could have the odd 76s. It looks an awful lot like an 8x hand which peeled the flop and decided to semi-bluff after picking up an OESD.