Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

Villain is super good post flop and on a scale of one to fnupple I'd rate him at about a nine point fnupple.

I'd guess that his CO steal is like top 35%ish as button wasn't particularly 3betty aggro.

Do we have a thin river vb or is c/f better? If we should be c/f river is a turn check > bet?

Full Tilt Poker $15/$30 Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1198048
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Pre Flop: (1.667 SB) Hero is SB with 5 5
2 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, CO calls

Flop: (7 SB) 4 T 8 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls

Turn: (4.5 BB) A (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls

River: (6.5 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero ???

Oh yeah and in fnupple's shoes should we be calling river with KQ in this spot against a TAG's range?

Against a 9.fnup, I'd tank and check/fold 5's, or I'd tank and check/raise

As a default, I'd fold the river w/ KQ

Def not a valuebet. Might be close to a fold as his hand looks alot like 8x/10x or some other slowplays.

Against a 9.fnup, I'd tank and check/fold 5's, or I'd tank and check/raise

As a default, I'd fold the river w/ KQ

ooooh check/raise would be an awesome bluff getting like 4.25:1 since I want to not get too bluff heavy on the betting end of my distribution here and with me having so many strong value combos vs his range that's weighted away from some stronger hands.

Also if we get into rebluffing river wars I can put in the last bet as a 4bet bluff and make him fold getting let's see river is 12.5:2 or 6.25:1 against his bluffing range. Gotta be careful with this though because he'll be getting a sick price to call. Like 13.5:1 so I've gotta be right a super high % of the time.

Feels like I don't want to be getting into lol rebluffing wars with a player as good as fnupple though. Even though it would be great fun.

Def not a valuebet. Might be close to a fold as his hand looks alot like 8x/10x or some other slowplays.

Yeah I think you're right. I've got lots of other combos of worse hands to bluff with in this spot and I don't expect fnupple to make many mistakes against my SB v CO restealing range that makes it to the river this way.

Plus having some balance to my CR range does great things for my game plan against him and might earn me some extra pots against worse the times that river goes check check.

FWIW I don't think that he slow plays here very often at all because of how much value he's giving up with the ranges being as wide as they are preflop.

Oops correct price on the CR river bluff would obviously be 7.5:2 or 3.75:1 to break even in this spot. Which means it needs to work only 26.6% of the time! My bad there.

Definitely not the player type that you want to get into a leveling war with, but if she 3bet's our check/raise it's actually a pretty mandatory call with our 5's.

As good as Fnupple is he def can have slowplays preflop even though its a wide range spot.I mean, he can have 99/KK intending to raise any turn but the ace came, he could have 10x with the same train of thought.

Also like you said, i think you have stronger hands that you can bluffcatch with. Should you have something like 8x i think you have to check-call, i think i`d be betting 10x or better.

I also dont like checkraising on this river very much as a bluff, i havent done the math or anything like that, it just doesnt feel like he has any bluffs that he`s played this passive up until this point, and i dont think hes going to bet/fold 10x or better. Against weaker opposition i could see myself checkraising hands like AJ and better.

Definitely not the player type that you want to get into a leveling war with, but if she 3bet's our check/raise it's actually a pretty mandatory call with our 5's.

Cool. Also Fnupple's a dude.

As good as Fnupple is he def can have slowplays preflop even though its a wide range spot.I mean, he can have 99/KK intending to raise any turn but the ace came, he could have 10x with the same train of thought.

Also like you said, i think you have stronger hands that you can bluffcatch with. Should you have something like 8x i think you have to check-call, i think i`d be betting 10x or better.

I also dont like checkraising on this river very much as a bluff, i havent done the math or anything like that, it just doesnt feel like he has any bluffs that he`s played this passive up until this point, and i dont think hes going to bet/fold 10x or better. Against weaker opposition i could see myself checkraising hands like AJ and better.

Yeah it totally depends on how I think his range is distributed. If I perceive him to be b/fing 27% of his range here then a CR bluff is pretty mandatory against him and gains us extra value with the stronger parts of our range. It's also something that comes up very rarely so it's not a super big deal so long as my strategy is balanced overall when he's playing GTO and exploitative when he shifts into exploitative mode.

That being said I think that you're right about what his range consists of and that check fold > check call for sure here. Betting seems like it's probably worse than both of the checking options but I'm not totally sure.

Only reason you would want to bet is that you think by some stretch he would fold marginally better hands than you, 66/77 and 8x, and that might happen some of the time depending on how youve been behaving and how he views you, but if you get called by worse here vs good players i think youre running too good

c/f I think

Yeah definitely too thin for value, with most 6-max ranges and this sequences imo. And I'd rather bluff QJ, J9, 97s? After checking, I do think 55 is a hand that you could consider a bluff kr with though, whereas you would have just bet the Q hi or 9 hi if you were bluffing... now you're switching to bottom of your check call range.

I've had a lot of success making this play on broadway boards, where I called kc turn with initiative to bluff catch but then the river makes the 4 straight, and my hand becomes worthless.

KPR, am I correct in interpreting your last post as saying you would rather turn 55 into a c/r bluff than unpaired high cards?

Well if I some how had unpaired high cards, I probably would have bet them as a bluff, and/or not made it to the river

So yes, kr bluff region is bottom of your kc range. Best hands you'd otherwise fold. Worst hands you'd otherwise call. In practice it doesn't matter that much either way.