Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

Also +1 that we dont really ever have AK in our range here since we would probably never cr that on the flop? I know i wouldnt. And like KPR said, i would randomize what draws i 3bet the turn with based on flow vs the player, but i would certainly 3bet if i was suited and the turn brought me a flushdraw simply bc we have more equity to fall back on.

Wouldn't we rather 4 bet JT here than 67?

The only thing I can answer for certain on first glance is the river bet is good.

Wouldn't we rather 4 bet JT here than 67?

The only thing I can answer for certain on first glance is the river bet is good.

Id think J10 would be a better candidate against a bad player that was "slowplaying" the flop with 9x that was raising any turncard, in which case we can bet 10s and Js for value. Against BK/good players, im not sure if thats the case.

I think the hand is really well played. Especially turn check and river bet.

1. Does anyone prefer c/c on the flop? A c/f?
I like c/r. I feel like a player like BK you're going to want to be more balanced in this spot and it's easier and more credible for value to c/r flop and I feel like it's easier to balance your range here and have a wider and harder range to read if you c/r here too.

3. Are you betting any part of your range on this turn given a flop c/r?
I'd probably polarize my range in this spot to my best value hands and a couple of draws that have the no showdown value (would check turn sometimes too to balance since the A smacks a lot of his range).

4. If you are, what line are you taking with this hand?
I would take this line after reading this thread . Before reading this I'd probably c/f flop and miss out on this awesome bluffing spot because I haven't studied this board texture against a good lag/tag type range.

5. Does anyone prefer to give up on the river?
Nope, as played this hand is one of the perfect hands to bet because we're getting a great price to fold out better overcard type hands that will make up a lot of his range given our blockers and what our range likely looks like to him.

OTR:

To achieve a balance with our turn c betting range do we first look at our perceived value range combos then weigh that against the price we're laying him to decide combo wise how many bluffs we want in our range?

If villain 3!'s flop is this a spot you'd want to remain balanced? If so how would you achieve this?

If the metagame shifts to where villain 3!'s flop unbalanced what's the best way to exploit this? Specifically how should this effect your preflop strategy and flop distributions (best line is what I'm asking I guess)?

So here's a hand I played against bicyclekick. He's one of the original lag/tags: a very good thinking player.

First I'll post the hand then I'll post some questions:

Poker Stars $50/$100 Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1091037
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with J 6
2 folds, BTN raises, 1 fold, Hero calls

Flop: (4.5 SB) 4 8 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets, Hero raises, BTN calls

Turn: (4.25 BB) A (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (4.25 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets

Now some questions:

1. Does anyone prefer c/c on the flop? A c/f?
2. If you do c/c the flop, do you semibluff any turns? Which ones?
3. Are you betting any part of your range on this turn given a flop c/r?
4. If you are, what line are you taking with this hand?
5. Does anyone prefer to give up on the river?

This exercise is pointless, as none of these questions can be answered without having an understanding of the dynamic between the two players involved.

This exercise is pointless, as none of these questions can be answered without having an understanding of the dynamic between the two players involved.

Thanks Bob. I disagree.

Also +1 that we dont really ever have AK in our range here since we would probably never cr that on the flop? I know i wouldnt. And like KPR said, i would randomize what draws i 3bet the turn with based on flow vs the player, but i would certainly 3bet if i was suited and the turn brought me a flushdraw simply bc we have more equity to fall back on.

As OP clearly states in the post above, flow vs player and metagame dynamic does not matter. So, it does not matter that BK's hand looks to be face up as nothing that can call a river bet, at least according to OP. It also does not matter that BB betting the river could look very strange to someone thinking deeply about the hand since it is a bet that cannot be called since it appears that BK does not have anything that can call once he checks the turn ace. Or does he? Maybe BK checks small pairs back on this turn intending to call a river bet since he thinks that BB will never fold better but will bluff worse if the turn checks through. Or maybe he checks AJ in this small pot on this turn to induce a river bluff since he thinks that BB will only fold his air to a turn bet but will, as he did in this spot, bet his bluffs on the river when the turn checks through. Or maybe BK even checks AJ knowing that BB will not only bet his river bluffs, but will bet/3bet them since a river raise from BK after a turn check and a river brick looks like total bullshit, thus netting BK 3 big bets instead of the zero he'd have gotten had he bet that turn ace. But according to OP somehow none of this vital information matters.

As OP clearly states in the post above, flow vs player and metagame dynamic does not matter.

Not what I said. It does matter, but that doesn't make the excercise pointless.

Not what I said. It does matter, but that doesn't make the excercise pointless.

Exactly. Just because a complete answer is not entirely knowable in something, doesn't mean the question shouldn't be asked. It's the same in life, imagine if non-religious people decided "well morality is objective but we don't have all the necessary information or tools to answer questions fully, so I'm just not going to bother to think about it or ask myself moral questions."

I know I'm making a leap here in what he was saying but I figured I'd try to be philosophical for a moment.