tfufu
35 posts
Joined 03/2008
haha im 50mins in and all the hands are mine. note: when im confused i like to showdown a lot.
K2o hand: villain was like 50/27ish and his line outweirded me, so my flop thought process was: oh weird, lets go to showdown. on the turn i think he's c/f a lot and i think i get like 2bets in on the river a lot when he bings something and bet-calls or 1 bet when he decides to bluff teh river finally.
AJ: i think pretty std, turn/showdown i was: wtf, think i played it decent
97: confused->sd, i felt my hand was pretty weak on the turn/river without a kicker and on that board, probably didnt notice conciously how short villain was too
AKs: on the turn i thought katja's range was pretty strong(i thought she checks underpairs there a fair bit since she's a terrible live donkament pro/woman). slightly tilted @ results, but at the time i thought she played differently than she (probably) did( ie more passive).
J9s: flop: i thought was close between c/r and calling, not too unhappy with my decision. turn: confused/puked, yay @ winning.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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motienko
2112 posts
Joined 03/2008
Time Link to 00:16:02
Hi guys,
The other day I had a scenario where everytime I was raising the CO the button would 3b and the bad loose passive would call in the BB much like this hand. The button was a pretty good 27/20/2 TAG and had a pretty wide range here: 67s, any As, A6o+ any pair, 9To etc.
Clearly it was time to come up with a counter strategy. I didn't want to leave the game because there were two soft spots that made it worth it even with this guy on my left. I could obviously tighten up.
The dynamic was always the same. I raise, button 3bets, BB calls. I decided to experiment and use the BB as my unknowing accomplice.
I thought to myself, if I were the button what would I hate to have happen the most in this situation. Be donked into. So thats what I did. I started donking into the button everytime I had a showdownable hand. Ace high, K high, and made hands. I realize that with made hands and certainly my stronger made hands this was not the theoretically best play. However, what I found was this was putting the button in a very awkward position. Since he has such a wide range he will be missing the flop often and is stuck between me and the BB. I would be essentially taking the initiative away from him.
The result I was mainly hoping for was to slow him down and make it unprofitable for him to raise me with many of his worse hands. My only problem with this was that he had clearly not adjusted to the fact the BB was calling 3 bets everytime. Still, I figured between this fact and me donking into him it would convince him to take a less aggressive approach preflop and allow me to open up my range and get involved in more pots against poor players.
I did this about six times. The first time I had AJ on a K62 board and he tanked for a few seconds and folded. I had a few other situations with similar hands and boards. I ended up winning about 3 pots that I would other wise have lost since I would never have made it to showdown or would never have peeled had I let him C bet the flop.
He never did adjust by fighting back. He actually started to quickly fold to my donk.
My plan was to monitor the situation and change gears when I thought he was adjusting.
It never happened, but if the BB did fold, my plan was to cap a little lighter or just call and CR the flop a ton as a bluff or semibluff.
Just curious what you think and do you employ similar counter strategies?
Thanks.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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motienko
2112 posts
Joined 03/2008
motienko
2112 posts
Joined 03/2008
BusinessGypsy
1760 posts
Joined 11/2008
Hi guys,
The other day I had a scenario where everytime I was raising the CO the button would 3b and the bad loose passive would call in the BB much like this hand. The button was a pretty good 27/20/2 TAG and had a pretty wide range here: 67s, any As, A6o+ any pair, 9To etc.
Clearly it was time to come up with a counter strategy. I didn't want to leave the game because there were two soft spots that made it worth it even with this guy on my left. I could obviously tighten up.
The dynamic was always the same. I raise, button 3bets, BB calls. I decided to experiment and use the BB as my unknowing accomplice.
I thought to myself, if I were the button what would I hate to have happen the most in this situation. Be donked into. So thats what I did. I started donking into the button everytime I had a showdownable hand. Ace high, K high, and made hands. I realize that with made hands and certainly my stronger made hands this was not the theoretically best play. However, what I found was this was putting the button in a very awkward position. Since he has such a wide range he will be missing the flop often and is stuck between me and the BB. I would be essentially taking the initiative away from him.
The result I was mainly hoping for was to slow him down and make it unprofitable for him to raise me with many of his worse hands. My only problem with this was that he had clearly not adjusted to the fact the BB was calling 3 bets everytime. Still, I figured between this fact and me donking into him it would convince him to take a less aggressive approach preflop and allow me to open up my range and get involved in more pots against poor players.
I did this about six times. The first time I had AJ on a K62 board and he tanked for a few seconds and folded. I had a few other situations with similar hands and boards. I ended up winning about 3 pots that I would other wise have lost since I would never have made it to showdown or would never have peeled had I let him C bet the flop.
He never did adjust by fighting back. He actually started to quickly fold to my donk.
wow. pimp.
Yeah, against this guy it sounds like capping light HU would be very successful. If he's not fighting back or floating and semibluffing the turn, he sounds pretty tight actually. I like to think of these guys as one-trick-ponies. They will never rebluff in these big pots = very easy to exploit and profitable, imo, especially if a fish is padding the pot, wow.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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Entity
8033 posts
Joined 11/2006
Rob, you mention that there are some players who you don't mind 3 betting you with a wide range because they are exploitable. What would be your exploitation strategy here?
Basically what I meant by that is in a spot where my range is strong and someone is 3-betting me too light and not adjusting, they're going to be owning themselves even though my life won't always be easy. It's not that I'm happy with being 3-bet as much as it is that the general exploitation will be that my range is tighter than they seem to think, and I'm going to be capping a very large portion of my range and/or checkraising a lot of flops. It's a fairly standard adjustment but based on the fact that my range will be strong enough that the amount of money he loses by 3-betting with dominated hands and barreling too much postflop will compensate for the fact that I'm OOP. It's not necessarily going to happen often, but I've definitely had it happen before.
Rob
Posted almost 4 years ago
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gusorama
569 posts
Joined 01/2008
sushiglutton
2747 posts
Joined 11/2007
Time Link to 00:04:52
On this QdTs2s board where villain decides to X after opening from SB. U say that this is a cheap bluff to make getting 4:1. I don't think we win this hand on the flop often. We are gonna have to barell two streets which obv reduces the price a lot. Let's say we have 5h4h. How about betting and then barell the turn on scare cards and otherwise take our FC? I think that's a good plan vs the Ax, Kx part of his range that will never fold the turn on a 2h.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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GiantBuddha
30 posts
Joined 05/2008
Time Link to 00:53:52
I don't like folding an 8 river here because now he can be value betting J8, T8, 86, 85, 8dxd. Whether or not he should be betting those cards is somewhat irrelevant because he doesn't appear to make good decisions. A T is much worse because it pairs so many straight draws above you. The only hand it doesn't hit is 65.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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sushiglutton
2747 posts
Joined 11/2007
I totally agree with GB above me. I also think a flop XR is pretty good here. In my mind if BTN has a broadway hand he will typically fold to a XR, but if we call he may take a FC. So XR push out a lot of equity (six outs twice some of the time) and prevent a pretty expensive FC for us. As we saw SB in this hand peel total junk so our hand should be fine here equity wise.
BTW I typicllay like a pf 3-bet. We are about break-even equity wise (~31% with the ranges I used), but a 3-bet makes it easier to represent some boards that we want to steal on.
All in all there were a lot of 3-way action. I noted that u guys advocated the passive approach in every single one of them. Even though we frequently had the chance to shut out a player behind us. I would def had raised many of these hands. Maybe this is a leak of mine, but I was a bit suprised tbh.
Posted almost 4 years ago
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Entity
8033 posts
Joined 11/2006
I don't like folding an 8 river here because now he can be value betting J8, T8, 86, 85, 8dxd. Whether or not he should be betting those cards is somewhat irrelevant because he doesn't appear to make good decisions. A T is much worse because it pairs so many straight draws above you. The only hand it doesn't hit is 65.
I generally take hands like those more out of people's ranges when they play like this guy, as he doesn't appear to be spastically aggro, just spastic -- meaning that I think his range is pretty polarized on the river. If he checks the river and it's a T, for example, I'm checking,b ut betting an 8, because I think that his river check is more likely going to be {bluffs that turned pairs} whereas if he bets it's more likely {badly played strong hands, bluffs}.
Rob
Posted almost 4 years ago
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Entity
8033 posts
Joined 11/2006
On this QdTs2s board where villain decides to X after opening from SB. U say that this is a cheap bluff to make getting 4:1. I don't think we win this hand on the flop often. We are gonna have to barell two streets which obv reduces the price a lot. Let's say we have 5h4h. How about betting and then barell the turn on scare cards and otherwise take our FC? I think that's a good plan vs the Ax, Kx part of his range that will never fold the turn on a 2h.
I don't think that it's a one-barrel bluff, but I do think that you have a combo of having equity vs. the majority of his hands and the only way you can set yourself up to win the pot vs. him is to barrel twice, so if I'm betting the flop I'm planning on betting the turn too. Like I said, K8o on this flop would be a much weirder decision because now I have equity vs his 76o hands that he decided to play badly (c/f flop rather than barrel), but with my non-showdownable hands and my value hands, I'd prefer to bet now. Close though, I think.
Rob
Posted almost 4 years ago
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