Dredok
318 posts
Joined 01/2010
I'm new to LHE, but this thinking seems flawed because it sounds like you are jamming $ into the pot early just so you can justify calling down on later streets. That doesn't seem like a good reason to 3b. However, you do make a good point that the bigger the pot, the less likely villain might be to bluff since we will call more often. I just think we should be putting more money into the pot with better reasons.
I'm coming from a NLHE background here, but this seems like a spot where you would 3b stronger for value or weaker as a bluff, but considering the slightly above average strength of this hand, we should try to keep the pot small and just call.
Again, I'm new to LHE so this is all just what makes sense to me.
actually A7o is a monster against typical SB steal range. So I like 3betting it for value
Posted over 2 years ago
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NinaWilliams
824 posts
Joined 12/2007
Is that the program in the background in the beginning? I was going to ask what that was. Seemed like some table selection tool. What is modo?
Its magic:the gathering online. I tend to forget to minimize it which isn't usually problematic unless of course I'm making a video.
Posted over 2 years ago
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NinaWilliams
824 posts
Joined 12/2007
You mention here it's a bad idea to 3! bet weak/showdownable hands like A7o in BvB.
My reasoning goes the other way - A7 has inherent SD value vs. a SB open, so by bloating the pot preflop, I make it easier to get to SD and more difficult for SB to bluff since I'm priced in to a call down.
Can you comment on how my reasoning is flawed, or is it just another way to approach the situation, but also valid?
Well, the problem with this is that when you 3b and get to showdown, you're not winning the pot as often as if you had just called. This is because he's not going to call down with air hands that he will bet.
Also, we want villain to bluff when we're calling down. It's good for us.
Posted over 2 years ago
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Dredok
318 posts
Joined 01/2010
Well, the problem with this is that when you 3b and get to showdown, you're not winning the pot as often as if you had just called. This is because he's not going to call down with air hands that he will bet.
Also, we want villain to bluff when we're calling down. It's good for us.
so, what are you 3betting BB vs SB? what is your weakest unsuited ace here?
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Hood
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NinaWilliams
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Such A Card
98 posts
Joined 03/2009
AT
So that's your weakest unsuited ace.
What if we have a complete spewy lunatic in the SB who opens 100%?
What if we have a really solid lag in the SB who opens in the high 80s?
Are you going to be 3 betting weaker offsuit aces then?
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NinaWilliams
824 posts
Joined 12/2007
So that's your weakest unsuited ace.
What if we have a complete spewy lunatic in the SB who opens 100%?
What if we have a really solid lag in the SB who opens in the high 80s?
Are you going to be 3 betting weaker offsuit aces then?
I can see it in the first scenario.
I assume you mean he plays decently postflop and overaggro pre? I definitely don't want to be 3 betting A7 against this guy.
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DosXX
384 posts
Joined 01/2008
I think one of the problems with not 3betting the A-little hands, is that observant opponents will start to catch on that when you 3 bet and an ace flops, you have hands that are heavily skewed to not being able to show down. I like your reasoning to get people to barrel off, but how about 3betting the little aces 25-50% of the time and calling the rest?
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NinaWilliams
824 posts
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I think one of the problems with not 3betting the A-little hands, is that observant opponents will start to catch on that when you 3 bet and an ace flops, you have hands that are heavily skewed to not being able to show down. I like your reasoning to get people to barrel off, but how about 3betting the little aces 25-50% of the time and calling the rest?
I still have pairs and quite a few Ax hands when I 3 bet.
3 betting the little ones 25-50% doesn't make much sense. One option has to be better than the other. Just do the better one 100% of the time.
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DeathDonkey
5387 posts
Joined 11/2006
I still have pairs and quite a few Ax hands when I 3 bet.
3 betting the little ones 25-50% doesn't make much sense. One option has to be better than the other. Just do the better one 100% of the time.
I somehow agree with both of you. I don't think they need to be 3 bet because we can simply be stubborn on ace high boards with weaker hands if that's the case. But I also think its wrong to say there is no merit to doing something some % of the time. Sure you are correct that the EV of one in a vacuum vs opponent X's hand / range will be higher, but if our opponent is smart that EV will be reduced somewhat over time as he learns our strategy. Having a bit more balance in that spot may be the best way to avoid loss of EV vs a smart player.
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DosXX
384 posts
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I still have pairs and quite a few Ax hands when I 3 bet.
3 betting the little ones 25-50% doesn't make much sense. One option has to be better than the other. Just do the better one 100% of the time.
I 100% disagree w/ "doing something some % of the time has to be wrong," especially at higher stakes. Players adjust to your strategy. So, we can really mess with players by showing playing certain hands somewhat differently we can basically zig when they think we are zagging.
Edit: or I agree with DD.
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NinaWilliams
824 posts
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I 100% disagree w/ "doing something some % of the time has to be wrong," especially at higher stakes. Players adjust to your strategy. So, we can really mess with players by showing playing certain hands somewhat differently we can basically zig when they think we are zagging.
Edit: or I agree with DD.
Players don't adjust as much as you think they do. It's going to be very hard to pick up on a slightly imbalanced range such that you need to do weird things like 3 bet A2o 16% of the time.
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DosXX
384 posts
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Players don't adjust as much as you think they do. It's going to be very hard to pick up on a slightly imbalanced range such that you need to do weird things like 3 bet A2o 16% of the time.
Do you adjust when you notice trends in your opponents' playing? When you play 15/30+ do you think there are other players who are trying to think about the game on the same level you are?
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NinaWilliams
824 posts
Joined 12/2007
Do you adjust when you notice trends in your opponents' playing? When you play 15/30+ do you think there are other players who are trying to think about the game on the same level you are?
of course. But some trends are more telling than others. If I see a guy call A7o here, I don't put much stock into it. It gives me a glimpse into his 3 betting range sure, but I'm not going to base a read around it.
Also keep in mind that the more you 3b weak Ax hands, the harder it is to rep an A when you call. And this comes up in a lot of other spots. When you attempt to balance your range in one spot, you unbalance it in another.
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