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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

Nice post VUcats, a lot of stuff I agree with in there looking at the hand again.

Gosh we play so good...

Serious question for you Kenny: are you raising your worst Qs on the turn in this spot? What's our range of hands that you gain an extra bet of value from (ie not draws) and is that range large enough to make raising with Q2 correct?

Well, I'd rather not get toooo far into my full strategy for playing against DD, but I don't think he's 3-barreling on this board with as many bluffs as most 30/60+ players so that along with a couple other issues with my overall approach made me more apt to raise my medium strength value hands on the turn.

Time Link to 00:05:17

Edit: I thought I put in a time stamp. But its early. A few minutes before VUCats time stamp

The AA hand where you 3bet in the SB against UTG open and UTG+1 cc.

You talk about going for a sexy on a J234 rainbow turn. To be honest I find this rly bad. OTR talks about balance which I agree on but even in a vacuum its quite bad imo.

You have shown so much strength and villain didnt raise the flop even tho he had a chance to protect his hand should he have a pair.


So basically your range is rly strong and his range is rly week. With the wheel draw out there there is no chance he is folding Ax and he is peeling KQ as well. When considering the ranges its quite unlikely he bets if you guys check.

Its definetely FPS to go for a c/r against sane villains there!! Against a aggro donkey I like it tho


Edit: Another way to think about this:

I MoP a lot if not all the examples are dealing with symetric ranges. Ie they analyse spots where hero and villain has equally strong ranges. But if we consider a spot where hero's range is uniforly distributed from 0.9 to 1 and likewise villain's range is distributed from say .4 to .5 then its pretty easy to find the eq (or GTO) strategies. Hero (who is oop) should bet his entire range and villain should call those of his hands which has the odds to peel in order to improve over a sufficiently large part of heros range.

This is quite easy to verify: Should hero opt to check and should villain opt to bet some or all of his hands then the optimal response for hero is to call his entire range since his worst hand beats the best possible hand villain can have. Since the optimal response for hero is to never fold the optimal play for villain is to check his entire range should hero check.


Now in the AA hand it can certainly be argued that hero's bottom end is worse than villains top end. Hero can have KQ and villain can have some Ax. But the part of hero's and villain's ranges which overlap is quite small. Villain maaay have AQ and could certainly have a bunch of A hi hands and weak. Hero's worst hand should be KQs or maaaybe KQo.


So I know this is quite a long rant but I find it quite important to understand. Cliff notes: Going for a turn sexy c/r with AA is bad against sane opposition because villain needs to play pretty far of the equilibrium path in order to bet with a sufficiently high frequency for c/r > bet

/Oink

Time Link to 00:19:26

I hope the time stamp works now!

The T9s hand where you bet/3bet KJJ flop with a fd and end up "vbetting" the KJJJA river.

No way in hell you have a vbet here. Seems like a c/f to me or a bluff bet to make a bad handreader fold small pp's

Pretty good video overall. It worked rly well and as usual DD is just getting in soooo many good points because he talks so fast.

OTR seemed rly solid/expert and explained himself very well. One of the better LHE vids I have seen in a while!

I hope the time stamp works now!

The T9s hand where you bet/3bet KJJ flop with a fd and end up "vbetting" the KJJJA river.

No way in hell you have a vbet here. Seems like a c/f to me or a bluff bet to make a bad handreader fold small pp's

To clarify for others we made flush on the river with the ace on a 3 club board. Yeah this was a tough spot given we were doing a live play video and I didn't want to time way down and get raised

So you like the turn bluff but like check/folding when we make the flush? You are right that its a bad value bet given the guy has to fold a bunch of his flush draws on the turn card that came, which I didn't recognize at the time.

Thanks for the long math post btw, I think you are right and just was overly fancy in that spot

Edit: I thought I put in a time stamp. But its early. A few minutes before VUCats time stamp

The AA hand where you 3bet in the SB against UTG open and UTG+1 cc.

You talk about going for a sexy on a J234 rainbow turn. To be honest I find this rly bad. OTR talks about balance which I agree on but even in a vacuum its quite bad imo.

You have shown so much strength and villain didnt raise the flop even tho he had a chance to protect his hand should he have a pair.


So basically your range is rly strong and his range is rly week. With the wheel draw out there there is no chance he is folding Ax and he is peeling KQ as well. When considering the ranges its quite unlikely he bets if you guys check.

Its definetely FPS to go for a c/r against sane villains there!! Against a aggro donkey I like it tho


Edit: Another way to think about this:

I MoP a lot if not all the examples are dealing with symetric ranges. Ie they analyse spots where hero and villain has equally strong ranges. But if we consider a spot where hero's range is uniforly distributed from 0.9 to 1 and likewise villain's range is distributed from say .4 to .5 then its pretty easy to find the eq (or GTO) strategies. Hero (who is oop) should bet his entire range and villain should call those of his hands which has the odds to peel in order to improve over a sufficiently large part of heros range.

This is quite easy to verify: Should hero opt to check and should villain opt to bet some or all of his hands then the optimal response for hero is to call his entire range since his worst hand beats the best possible hand villain can have. Since the optimal response for hero is to never fold the optimal play for villain is to check his entire range should hero check.


Now in the AA hand it can certainly be argued that hero's bottom end is worse than villains top end. Hero can have KQ and villain can have some Ax. But the part of hero's and villain's ranges which overlap is quite small. Villain maaay have AQ and could certainly have a bunch of A hi hands and weak. Hero's worst hand should be KQs or maaaybe KQo.


So I know this is quite a long rant but I find it quite important to understand. Cliff notes: Going for a turn sexy c/r with AA is bad against sane opposition because villain needs to play pretty far of the equilibrium path in order to bet with a sufficiently high frequency for c/r > bet

/Oink

This post is sexy on so many levels. Thanks Oink.

Rob

I hope the time stamp works now!

The T9s hand where you bet/3bet KJJ flop with a fd and end up "vbetting" the KJJJA river.

No way in hell you have a vbet here. Seems like a c/f to me or a bluff bet to make a bad handreader fold small pp's

This is a hand I thought would inspire more discussion on the forum... I really think that you're right here and the value bet is bad; however, I do like the bet as a bluff in this spot (against a bad hand reader of course)... Against a better player, I do think c/f is best in retrospect, but against a better player I wonder if we should be playing the hand so aggressively on the flop and turn.

This is something I've been thinking about a ton lately. The way a lot of players, even decent->good players play draws in lhe is this: they take their draws that can win at sd and play those passively and usually show down (A K high flush draws, big straight draws, even hands like A high with overcards to a bunch of villains range). They also take their draws that can't win at sd and play them aggressively, semibluffing flop, turn, and sometimes bluffing rivers.

This is good and correct.

There is, however, a third class of draw, I think, that falls right between these two. I like to think of these as semi-showdownable draws. Basically these are the draws that don't have enough equity at showdown where we can call the river and also don't have enough fold equity against better hands in our opponents range to semibluff at any point in the hand... I think we should be c/c c/c c/f these hands even though most decent players end up semibluffing with them.

I wonder if T9cc, for all of it's equity in this spot, is one of these hands... all of this is predicated on a strong opponent who can read hands well. But it's something I've been thinking about lately, and maybe something to consider in this spot.

Pretty good video overall. It worked rly well and as usual DD is just getting in soooo many good points because he talks so fast.

OTR seemed rly solid/expert and explained himself very well. One of the better LHE vids I have seen in a while!

Thanks I'm glad you liked it!

Time Link to 00:20:42

When Housemom raises UTg+1 and you have AA in the BB are you still 3 betting pre if the SB didn't CC or are you calling and c/r the flop?

When Housemom raises UTg+1 and you have AA in the BB are you still 3 betting pre if the SB didn't CC or are you calling and c/r the flop?

Pretty perfect spot to just call, vs an early position raiser from a spot we won't be 3 betting a wide range of hands.

This is a hand I thought would inspire more discussion on the forum... I really think that you're right here and the value bet is bad; however, I do like the bet as a bluff in this spot (against a bad hand reader of course)... Against a better player, I do think c/f is best in retrospect, but against a better player I wonder if we should be playing the hand so aggressively on the flop and turn.

This is something I've been thinking about a ton lately. The way a lot of players, even decent->good players play draws in lhe is this: they take their draws that can win at sd and play those passively and usually show down (A K high flush draws, big straight draws, even hands like A high with overcards to a bunch of villains range). They also take their draws that can't win at sd and play them aggressively, semibluffing flop, turn, and sometimes bluffing rivers.

This is good and correct.

There is, however, a third class of draw, I think, that falls right between these two. I like to think of these as semi-showdownable draws. Basically these are the draws that don't have enough equity at showdown where we can call the river and also don't have enough fold equity against better hands in our opponents range to semibluff at any point in the hand... I think we should be c/c c/c c/f these hands even though most decent players end up semibluffing with them.

I wonder if T9cc, for all of it's equity in this spot, is one of these hands... all of this is predicated on a strong opponent who can read hands well. But it's something I've been thinking about lately, and maybe something to consider in this spot.

I know I'm late in the game with this video series, but just watched it now and followed this discussion. Not only was the video excellent, but this post above and some of the others in this thread cover the $$$ paid for my DC subscription in one go.