Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

Im sorry, but i strongly disagree.

You will get called down here by worse ace, Kx, sometimes Qx and you may also garner action from draws/semi-bluffs.

If you dont think that AT on this flop is a valuebet then plz dont 3bet this hand pf because it sounds like the only time you would "valuebet" this hand is when you hit and A or T

I reraised an UTG open with a hand that just about has 50% equity (enough to 3b but still not a valuebetting hand). He won´t call down with K or Q high (!) that never happens in my games when you reraise an UTG opener (but he will probably peel one is that what you meant?). He will check/raise a good chunk of his range any pair (!) and a few FDs (that means he´ll ch/r 33% of his range on this flop). Have you read the rest of the thread? If so you´ll know he was a bit tighter pre flop (and I didn´t expect him to cap) so vs his range I have 49% equity on this flop. And I probably need like at least 60% to call it a pure valuebet since we will get check/raised a good chunk. I´m sorry too, but people routinely call this a value bet when it´s not.

I reraised an UTG open with a hand that just about has 50% equity (enough to 3b but still not a valuebetting hand). He won´t call down with K or Q high (!) that never happens in my games when you reraise an UTG opener (but he will probably peel one is that what you meant?). He will check/raise a good chunk of his range any pair (!) and a few FDs (that means he´ll ch/r 33% of his range on this flop). Have you read the rest of the thread? If so you´ll know he was a bit tighter pre flop (and I didn´t expect him to cap) so vs his range I have 49% equity on this flop. And I probably need like at least 60% to call it a pure valuebet since we will get check/raised a good chunk. I´m sorry too, but people routinely call this a value bet when it´s not.

I did realise after i posted that this wasnt a HUHU hand, i should pay attn to preflop

That being said, have you actually stoved your hand vs a UTG range, i will when i have time. I assume whats where you get your equity % (just checking)

I still say it has value, albeit thin compared to 3betting a BTN open in a HUHU match. I think even tight guys open A7s+ KJ+ KTs+ QJs, JTs

This brings me back to original question of why did you 3bet preflop if you cant cbet here? Why not just fold preflop? Is it to isolate villain pf and check down?

We get value when these hands peel and as physcobingo mentioned we obviously protect our hand in a 3bet pot. We will very occasionally garner action from worse hands like draws by betting and i highly doubt you will get a bet here from KJ or something as a bluff on the turn or riv by this villain, while you are 100% guranteed to get at least 1sb by betting the flop.

You say he is tight and wont cap any of his range pf?

Would you say c-betting AQ on this flop a valuebet?

I did realise after i posted that this wasnt a HUHU hand, i should pay attn to preflop

That being said, have you actually stoved your hand vs a UTG range, i will when i have time. I assume whats where you get your equity % (just checking)

Yes.

I still say it has value, albeit thin compared to 3betting a BTN open in a HUHU match. I think even tight guys open A7s+ KJ+ KTs+ QJs, JTs

Just because an action sometimes has value doesn´t make it a valuebet. I just think that we need to be more carefull in how we phrase things if we want to be able to analyze a hand better.

This brings me back to original question of why did you 3bet preflop if you cant cbet here? Why not just fold preflop? Is it to isolate villain pf and check down?

Why would you ever raise a hand with which you will check back a low drawy flop? Or why do we ever raise a street to take a free card on the next? Because we find more value on the following street to take a different action then betting. Pre flop I raise for isolation if this was HU but he still had this super tight range (strange assumption I know) then I would be hesitant to 3B pre flop. Also my 3B pre flop let´s me decide what to do on the flop since I never (or rarely) expect him to cap pre or donk flop.

We get value when these hands peel and as physcobingo mentioned we obviously protect our hand in a 3bet pot. We will very occasionally garner action from worse hands like draws by betting and i highly doubt you will get a bet here from KJ or something as a bluff on the turn or riv by this villain, while you are 100% guranteed to get at least 1sb by betting the flop.

Yes we will get value from worse hands (47% of his range). We will get called by better (20% of his range) and punished by better (33% of his range.) All-in-all it´s not a valuebet. On average we will be breakeven against an opponent who could fold some hands on this flop and in the negative against an opponent who never folds this flop.

Oh, and us garnering a ch/r action by draws is not a good thing as long as we can´t clearly call down.

You say he is tight and wont cap any of his range pf?
Would you say c-betting AQ on this flop a valuebet?

Yes, this would be closer to a valuebet in my mind. AK is a valuebet most definately.

Depending on how safe I am in folding this hand vs this opponent after I checked behind on the flop, I don´t mind going for a check down (folding to any action). If I was unsure and thought he would be tight on the flop (which he probably was) I believe a bet would have been better! I think hand number 1 is close and I don´t mind a bet, I just mind calling it a valuebet.

Edited, unsure either. Oh! You had an extra [/quote] at the end of one that probably screwed things up.