Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

25/50 live fr poker

villain is pretty similar to the standard online opponent, kind of a bad LAG, overplays hands etc.

A 9 in sb, 7 handed

lots of folds, villain opens in cu, fold, hero 3!s sb, fold, cu calls

flop: K J 8

hero bet, call

turn: 3

hero check/folds

this has been a tough spot for me. I do think villain will bet QT, T9 etc and I'm not sure if he would raise the flop or float with those types of hands

Either bet/fold or check fold. Bet folding if he will play his bad draws passively on the flop, check fold if he will call with strenght hands.

It's a tough spot for sure.

I'd check/call the turn. The toughness of this spot is, does he bet river with his missed draws? QT Q9 9T. If they all bet turn and give up on river, then you can call, if not, then I guess folding is best?

How would you play 55-77 in this spot, assuming you 3bet that?

betting turn seems pointless since you're pretty far behind his range and it's very unlikely that he's folding better very often at all, at least for one barrel. besides, your equity if called is very poor here. so check imo.

after he bets the turn i would guesstimate that you have like 20-23% vs his range, which isn't very good at all since you're only getting 6:2 on a calldown (assuming he bets the river 100%), so to call the turn bet you would have to be almost sure that you're gonna be able to play the river perfectly AND that he's checking behind some. your implied odds on hitting an ace are mediocre since a turn c/c looks a lot like A hi, and your implied odds on hitting a 9 are actually negative. you're also pretty near what i perceive to be the bottom of range here (this flop should hit your PF range very hard), so just c/f imo.
if that kinda spot keeps bothering you, try check/raising more often when you actually have a hand or a good draw here!

I can't think of enough hands he'd fold on this turn card to make betting correct. If he opened any Ax and folded A2/A4-A9 on this turn card then betting would probably be good, but otherwise we're just betting into a PP or 8x/Jx a huge amount that's never folding.

Is it really that optimistic to hope that all gutshots will fold? And most small pairs that peeled the flop? Imo a turn bet is good against some, but obviously very opponent specific..

I've been thinking about this some, and playing around with stove/combo software. The biggest effect on our equity, seems to depend on whether or not he calls the flop with worse A highs than our own. Best-to-worst case scenario, it seemed to range from 28% - 17%. So, vs. an unknown, splitting the difference seemed fair enough to me, so about 22%.

But even more interesting, I got to thinking, is if he IS sitting there with A7s-A2s, or A7o-A5o ( which makes up the biggest chunk of hands we are ahead of ), wtf is he going to do with them? Bet? Doubt it. And even if he does bet, that's probably NOT going to be a very good stategy against us overall, vs. the range we are going to have here.

It's going to be even LESS of a good idea, if I take fnupple's advice, and start throwing in some turn c/r's here. So, I think I'm going to make this my 6max goal for the week, to find some Turn c/r spots. My 6max game NEEDS some more Evil in it! Expect to see some posts where I butcher this play accordingly.

after he bets the turn i would guesstimate that you have like 20-23% vs his range, which isn't very good at all since you're only getting 6:2 on a calldown (assuming he bets the river 100%),

One thing fnupple, wouldn't many a bad lag auto bet any turn when checked to?

The 3 seems like a total brick, and the PF3bettor checking it seems to be just giving up, making it even easier to auto bet the turn. Is there NO value in betting the turn to see, then x/? the river?

I could see the villain having PP's as well as AX here. Would a LAG call down with 77 here?

which

Calling down with 77 is terrible imo.

psycho--

that's kinda my point. He could have a 77 type hand very easily that when checked to auto bets. He really has given us little insight into his hand yet.

which

Thats why i like a turn bet - to give villain an opportunity to fold 77 and such hands.

Calling down with 77 is terrible imo.

whether or not that's true (i don't think it's "terrible"), do u guys really expect a bad LAG who's overplaying his hands to peel the flop with and underpair and then fold one of the best turn cards in the deck for him?

That's why I feel check/calling and check/folding are both viable options. He's never folding a pocket pair to a turn bet, or at least he shouldn't.

Now if he also dares barrel his draws (and I think he should), we're now getting owned very badly.


This hand is such a great example of why position is so hugely important in limit.

whether or not that's true (i don't think it's "terrible"), do u guys really expect a bad LAG who's overplaying his hands to peel the flop with and underpair and then fold one of the best turn cards in the deck for him?

I dont stove and therefore have no technical evidence, but on this board how much equity would you really have with 77? Terrible might have been a little harsh, but i still think its bad.

77 has about 36% vs the top 20% of hands on this board.