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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by FoxwoodsFiend (Mid Stakes)

At 03:30, FWF opens with A8o on the cutoff and gets 3-bet by an unknown on the button. Blinds fold, FWF calls and the flop comes 9 5 T . I'm so tempted to peel this flop. There's reverse implied odds of course and only a back-door straight draw, but it's something like 8,5:1 on the call and the pure equity against a range like {77+,A8s+,KJs+,ATo+,KQo} is still decent, though much of it comes from K high hands, which are unfortunately probably going to fire another bullet on pretty much any turn (because he will be thinking that you're going to peel lightly on this kind of flop) and you're forced to fold. Maybe fold on the flop is the right play here.

At around 04:50 you defend with 89o on the big blind against SB steal-raise and the flop comes 9 4 T . He bets and you raise and he calls. Turn is 5 and the villain bets out. Two things: the board
here is incredibly draw-heavy and it's a blind battle. So, I actually expect the SB to bet out often with marginal to strong made hand. He might fear that you might check behind with your 78o or flush draw (or even ace high) and wants to make sure that he protects his vulnerable made hand. So I'd put him on 9x/Tx pocket pair type of hand. I think it's pretty unlikely that you'd have a hand that would fold to this turn donk so it makes it a bit more unlikely that he is just flat out bluffing or semi-bluffing.

Also, just raising to show he can't do it in this spot, what you mentioned wanting to do, is bad mainly because you don't know what he has. That's even more reason to just call-down, because then you get to see what he has. It is important to get a feel on what the villains showdown with especially in blind battles (and HUHU matches). If you raise just for the heck of it and he 3-bets, it's going to be tough one to call-down anymore.

The river is actually a tough one, because it completes all the draws and he's still betting. Even if he was semi-bluffing, he's either got there or at least to a bigger pair and I'm thinking that you can fold this river. He's an unknown, but maybe this isn't the spot to call-down. It was going to be somewhat thin call-down anyhow but with the J on the river, I think it's a fold.

At around 07:20 you open with T T on UTG and cutoff cold-calls and BB defends. Flop comes A 5 5 . You bet, correctly and they both call. CO's range here is pretty much Axs and pocket pairs. BB doesn't have to be that great a player to realize here that his smaller pocket pairs aren't good anymore. So his range is similar, but maybe a bit stronger, more like Ax type of hands. It's probably not a strong Ace, like AK/AQ because of him not raising the flop and neither of them probably has JJ-KK because of the preflop action.

Turn is the 9 , BB checks and you bet again. You really just hope that CO has 66 and BB has 77-88 here, which is a long-shot. Nobody's folding an ace on this board and even 99 filled up to a boat. I think check-fold is the right play. Of course, folding to raise is the right play.

At 08:00, hijack (seemingly passive player) opens for a raise and you debate whether to defend with 65o here. I think folding is the right play. I would defend it against aggressive (or "normal") steal raise from CO/BTN/SB, but this player seems somewhat passive and it is from hijack so I think fold is OK here.

10:40 you have 3 6 on the BB. UTG limps, button raises and you defend. I don't hate it, but I think it's close. You have a poor relative position a really marginal hand in limit hold'em. UTG calls the raise also. Flop comes J Q 6 . You check, UTG checks and the button bets. He's going to bet 100% of the time here, but it's not a great board for you. There are hands like Axs, ATs, AKs and Kxs that you're ahead, but you're not a favorite against his range.

That said, I think you need to raise this flop. (Either that or just fold.) UTG might have a marginal draw and button might have air, but you need to get them fold whatever hands they happen to have, quickly. There are not a lot of safe cards in the deck and you'd probably have to check-fold most of the time if you call.

Turn is 7 and you check and the villain bets again. I think this requires a bit deeper thinking as it is probable that the villain is putting you on a weak draw perhaps feeling that you might have semi-bluff raised your strong draws and definitely would have raised any Jack any Queen, probably most decent pocket pairs on the flop. (Though 99/TT you might have 3-bet preflop.)

So this makes me think that he might bet here with big part of his range, semi-valubetting strong ace high hands, but it's still a long-shot to call-down this. (With three flush cards on the turn, he's not likely to check behind with Ace high to induce bluffs, I guess.) The river comes a fourth and I think there's a theorem about four flush boards and being OOP, but I'm not sure if it's applicable to this situation. I just think that he's going to call your donk with any pair. [This last paragraph is really hand-wavy and sloppy as I'm having hard time analyzing the turn action.]

I'm just spewing comments here out of the hope that they have some use.. :-)


11:30 you 3-bet from the SB with AJo a hijack opener who you know from NL games and therefore those stats are basically unreliable.

Flop comes 9 4 Q . You bet and the villain calls. Turn is A . I think this might a good spot to check/raise out of the lead. It's very likely that you have the best hand, AQ and AK pretty much ruled out and even A9o would probably have raised the flop. Most likely he made a light flop peel and checking on the turn might induce a desperation bluff feeling that you give up once the Ace hits. Also, he's just going to fold a big part of his range to turn bet once the Ace hits. You might also get loose call-downs with weaker aces on this spot.

14:25, it's hard to make of the stats, but I think the player who opens on the button is a loose/passive with pretty low PFR. I think 3-betting with 44 here is a mistake. Against normal steal-raise it's OK, but it's something of a borderline case there too.

BB then caps and button and you call. (The fact that button called the cap isn't too significant as this villain will probably do it with every hand he's opening with.)

Flop comes J 4 5 . FWF checks, BB bets and button folds. FWF raises, BB 3-bets. Here, I don't actually hate just calling and check-raising the turn as it seems likely that BB has a real hand with this dry a board and he will most probably fire on the turn. But I guess you can't fault 4-betting right way, especially when you're out of position. Turn is T , you bet and he calls.

It's tough to put him on a hand here, because I think it's hard to think of a hand that would cap preflop, but not raise this turn. Maybe AJs? Maybe he just has QQ-AA and is going silly with it, but it would make no sense. Which brings us to the river, which is 9 . You valuebet correctly and the villain raises. Suddenly the A J makes sense. That said, I don't think you can fold this. It's a huge pot, an unknown player with a smallish stack and a set. But of course you can't 3-bet it either.

Somewhere around 17:00, UTG player limps and you have A2o on the BB. Flop comes J34r. I'd be tempted to bet out both on the flop and the turn and folding to a raise. I don't think you can profitably call a bet at any point against this player so the other option would be to just check-fold the flop. The downside of betting out is that he might get stubborn with pocket pairs on a board like this, because it's rather unlikely that you have hit the jack.

17:40 or so, player limps on UTG, you correctly raise with 66 on the button, BB defends. Flop comes 9 Q 3 . BB checks, UTG donks. I would just fold this. It's too likely to have hit the limper (or the BB defender) and while he might be semi-bluffing with a draw, he's in pretty good shape with something like JT with one there. Or if he's donking with a flush draw, it's also going to have many live pair outs and you can't profitably call-down with 66, especially having a player behind you.

18:20, UTG limper (a lot of UTG limpers in this game!), TAG CO raises, you have 9 3 on BB. I would muck this. No connectedness and poor relative position and no high card value to speak of.

19:30 or so, A 2 on the button and loose/passive player defends on BB. Flop comes 6 T A . BB checks, you bet and the villain raises. You chose to 3-bet, but I wouldn't. I don't think a lot of worse hands will call your flop 3-bet, other than perhaps club draws semi-bluffing.

Players in these make more moves on Ace high boards against stealers, but this is a passive player and I would put him on a reasonably strong hand. Maybe I would just call-down or even possibly fold at some point if he keeps firing. Maybe calling down is safer against relative unknown. But a lot of players will give up their desperation bluff after you call two times.

I actually enjoyed this video. Watching it I felt like FoxwoodsFiend could make his learning experience at LHE at lot more fun by table selecting better though. The right table seemed fine but the left one seemed too tough to beat without being a very strong player, especially with the seat FoxwoodsFiend was sitting in.

I'm just spewing comments here out of the hope that they have some use.. :-)


11:30 you 3-bet from the SB with AJo a hijack opener who you know from NL games and therefore those stats are basically unreliable.

Flop comes 9 4 Q . You bet and the villain calls. Turn is A . I think this might a good spot to check/raise out of the lead. It's very likely that you have the best hand, AQ and AK pretty much ruled out and even A9o would probably have raised the flop. Most likely he made a light flop peel and checking on the turn might induce a desperation bluff feeling that you give up once the Ace hits. Also, he's just going to fold a big part of his range to turn bet once the Ace hits. You might also get loose call-downs with weaker aces on this spot.

I think there are too many weak draws that he can have here that only pay you off when they hit, but won't do much if you check. You can also pretty frequently get bad raises from Ax that peeled. Basically I don't think there are many hands that would fold to a bet here that would bet.

Rob

Its different...interesting ...thought provoking....but I am not sure I get the idea either. I do, to some degree, agree with jajvirta's first post.
And, I understand entity's reply...and all the other stuff.
I have no idea how this series goes/ends. (I am assuming by comments that its already in the can)
But this video, might be more useful with a question of.."can you spot the mistakes, and how would you fix them?"
kinda what jajvirta is doing above.
However, there are a lot of mistakes here. I think CONCEPTS (limit)...are more important than specifics in FoxwoodsFiend's case.
doing this in REAL TIME....not in the can...might be more fun to. As we could HELP...with our discussion here.
I am interested at what DD's lesson is after seeing this video. if thats the point...I LIKE IT...

I did enjoy this video, but for my own personal reason.
FoxwoodsFiend...it was nice to hear you say that limit wasn't all that easy, and that you needed to think.
I learned from you, FoxwoodsFiend. I learned how a (good) no limit player thinks....even if it was playing limit.
I understand limit more than NL, but I am starting to play NL.
I am just as lost playing NL as you are playing limit. (except you hand read/board read/ player read...much better ofcourse...and that is clear in this video).
DD's quest in my oppinion....is to slow you down even more. Your aggression factor from no limit is too high for limit.( there is no.... BLOW THEM OUT OF THE POT WITH A BIG BET....here)
but again....this teaches me about NL.....I NEED TO BE WAY MORE AGGRESSIVE IN NL....(and as I am fighting weaktight in limit....it may be hopeless...lol)

one last note....I would drop you down at least two more levels to 3/6. and force you to win $600 before moving you up. .....I have started my NL play at .01/.02....I playing .02/.05 at the moment.
Also, its hard to watch someone START..three levels above where I have worked so hard to get to.(so I am kinda glad you having trouble...lol)

a last ,last note......This site is going to be very crowded soon.....there is so much content on here lately....I can't keep up.....but its fun trying. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, (and dont stop trying stuff, no matter how silly someone might think it is...lol).......this one works for me....
GGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOO FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFoxwoodsFiend!!!!!!!!!!!!

At 03:30, FWF opens with A8o on the cutoff and gets 3-bet by an unknown on the button. Blinds fold, FWF calls and the flop comes 9 5 T . I'm so tempted to peel this flop. There's reverse implied odds of course and only a back-door straight draw, but it's something like 8,5:1 on the call and the pure equity against a range like {77+,A8s+,KJs+,ATo+,KQo} is still decent, though much of it comes from K high hands, which are unfortunately probably going to fire another bullet on pretty much any turn (because he will be thinking that you're going to peel lightly on this kind of flop) and you're forced to fold. Maybe fold on the flop is the right play here.

Hey Jaj,

I think peeling a flop like this is the kind of play I wanted to avoid because I wasn't too comfortable with figuring out people's ranges at the time. I didn't know if people fire every time on the turn so I should call flop and turn (assuming it bricks) given my price I'm getting vs the button's range. Without a clear sense of how action goes on the turn in spots like this I kind of wanted to play it safe and not play in such a way that involved putting in chips without thinking. My general approach was if I'm not sure where I stand and the pot's not huge, I'm going to err on the side of not feeling spewy as opposed to leaking money in possibly marginally +EV but high variance spots tht would complicate my ability to assess my game.

At around 04:50 you defend with 89o on the big blind against SB steal-raise and the flop comes 9 4 T . He bets and you raise and he calls. Turn is 5 and the villain bets out. Two things: the board
here is incredibly draw-heavy and it's a blind battle. So, I actually expect the SB to bet out often with marginal to strong made hand. He might fear that you might check behind with your 78o or flush draw (or even ace high) and wants to make sure that he protects his vulnerable made hand. So I'd put him on 9x/Tx pocket pair type of hand. I think it's pretty unlikely that you'd have a hand that would fold to this turn donk so it makes it a bit more unlikely that he is just flat out bluffing or semi-bluffing.

Also, just raising to show he can't do it in this spot, what you mentioned wanting to do, is bad mainly because you don't know what he has. That's even more reason to just call-down, because then you get to see what he has. It is important to get a feel on what the villains showdown with especially in blind battles (and HUHU matches). If you raise just for the heck of it and he 3-bets, it's going to be tough one to call-down anymore.

This is all very fair and I was definitely flinging chips too casually early on in my limit "career."

The river is actually a tough one, because it completes all the draws and he's still betting. Even if he was semi-bluffing, he's either got there or at least to a bigger pair and I'm thinking that you can fold this river. He's an unknown, but maybe this isn't the spot to call-down. It was going to be somewhat thin call-down anyhow but with the J on the river, I think it's a fold.

Yep, I think so too. It's just so damn hard to fold a pair when you're getting started because you convince yourself you're getting a good enough price without having the requisite experience to realize that you're not really good that often at all.

Definitely appreciate the commentary...no offense taken from your first post. This was the very infancy of my limit experience and I think you'll manage to glean a lot from my future discussions with DeathDonkey and that my solo videos will give you alot of hands to think about.

At around 07:20 you open with T T on UTG and cutoff cold-calls and BB defends. Flop comes A 5 5 . You bet, correctly and they both call. CO's range here is pretty much Axs and pocket pairs. BB doesn't have to be that great a player to realize here that his smaller pocket pairs aren't good anymore. So his range is similar, but maybe a bit stronger, more like Ax type of hands. It's probably not a strong Ace, like AK/AQ because of him not raising the flop and neither of them probably has JJ-KK because of the preflop action.

Turn is the 9 , BB checks and you bet again. You really just hope that CO has 66 and BB has 77-88 here, which is a long-shot. Nobody's folding an ace on this board and even 99 filled up to a boat. I think check-fold is the right play. Of course, folding to raise is the right play.

Like I said, indiscriminate betting and super thin bets hoping that everthing was aligned just perfectly because I didn't want to fold is a pretty consistent problem of mine in these early videos.

10:40 you have 3 6 on the BB. UTG limps, button raises and you defend. I don't hate it, but I think it's close. You have a poor relative position a really marginal hand in limit hold'em. UTG calls the raise also. Flop comes J Q 6 . You check, UTG checks and the button bets. He's going to bet 100% of the time here, but it's not a great board for you. There are hands like Axs, ATs, AKs and Kxs that you're ahead, but you're not a favorite against his range.

That said, I think you need to raise this flop. (Either that or just fold.) UTG might have a marginal draw and button might have air, but you need to get them fold whatever hands they happen to have, quickly. There are not a lot of safe cards in the deck and you'd probably have to check-fold most of the time if you call.

Turn is 7 and you check and the villain bets again. I think this requires a bit deeper thinking as it is probable that the villain is putting you on a weak draw perhaps feeling that you might have semi-bluff raised your strong draws and definitely would have raised any Jack any Queen, probably most decent pocket pairs on the flop. (Though 99/TT you might have 3-bet preflop.)

So this makes me think that he might bet here with big part of his range, semi-valubetting strong ace high hands, but it's still a long-shot to call-down this. (With three flush cards on the turn, he's not likely to check behind with Ace high to induce bluffs, I guess.) The river comes a fourth and I think there's a theorem about four flush boards and being OOP, but I'm not sure if it's applicable to this situation. I just think that he's going to call your donk with any pair. [This last paragraph is really hand-wavy and sloppy as I'm having hard time analyzing the turn action.]

If these analyses are supposed to be some sort of advertising to become a guest coach or something, it's working on me (not that I have any say in the matter). You're pretty much dead-on with all of this and it's very helpful to have you assist in analyzing these hands. Thanks a lot for your contribution.

Its different...interesting ...thought provoking....but I am not sure I get the idea either. I do, to some degree, agree with jajvirta's first post.
And, I understand entity's reply...and all the other stuff.
I have no idea how this series goes/ends. (I am assuming by comments that its already in the can)
But this video, might be more useful with a question of.."can you spot the mistakes, and how would you fix them?"
kinda what jajvirta is doing above.
However, there are a lot of mistakes here. I think CONCEPTS (limit)...are more important than specifics in FoxwoodsFiend's case.
doing this in REAL TIME....not in the can...might be more fun to. As we could HELP...with our discussion here.
I am interested at what DD's lesson is after seeing this video. if thats the point...I LIKE IT...

I did enjoy this video, but for my own personal reason.
FoxwoodsFiend...it was nice to hear you say that limit wasn't all that easy, and that you needed to think.
I learned from you, FoxwoodsFiend. I learned how a (good) no limit player thinks....even if it was playing limit.
I understand limit more than NL, but I am starting to play NL.
I am just as lost playing NL as you are playing limit. (except you hand read/board read/ player read...much better ofcourse...and that is clear in this video).
DD's quest in my oppinion....is to slow you down even more. Your aggression factor from no limit is too high for limit.( there is no.... BLOW THEM OUT OF THE POT WITH A BIG BET....here)
but again....this teaches me about NL.....I NEED TO BE WAY MORE AGGRESSIVE IN NL....(and as I am fighting weaktight in limit....it may be hopeless...lol)

one last note....I would drop you down at least two more levels to 3/6. and force you to win $600 before moving you up. .....I have started my NL play at .01/.02....I playing .02/.05 at the moment.
Also, its hard to watch someone START..three levels above where I have worked so hard to get to.(so I am kinda glad you having trouble...lol)

a last ,last note......This site is going to be very crowded soon.....there is so much content on here lately....I can't keep up.....but its fun trying. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, (and dont stop trying stuff, no matter how silly someone might think it is...lol).......this one works for me....
GGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOO FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFoxwoodsFiend!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think we finally found stephennuts' deucescracked account! (inside HSNL joke possibly, but dude your punctuation is crazy)

i agree starting at 3/6 would led to a stronger foundation and background, but I really don't know how seriously i could take 3/6 truth be told. i try to play my best every time i play poker, but in the truly marginal spots where i'm figuring out whether to call a river raise or not it would be too easy to be subconsiously motivated by the fact that I can't take $6 seriously anymore.

i also agree i was too aggressive, but i've been working on that and you'll definitely see improvement in the later videos

stephennuts has a deucescracked account! i think it's stephenferaca though, or just stephennuts, but the punctuation is there!

11:30 you 3-bet from the SB with AJo a hijack opener who you know from NL games and therefore those stats are basically unreliable.

Flop comes 9 4 Q . You bet and the villain calls. Turn is A . I think this might a good spot to check/raise out of the lead. It's very likely that you have the best hand, AQ and AK pretty much ruled out and even A9o would probably have raised the flop. Most likely he made a light flop peel and checking on the turn might induce a desperation bluff feeling that you give up once the Ace hits. Also, he's just going to fold a big part of his range to turn bet once the Ace hits. You might also get loose call-downs with weaker aces on this spot.

I think there are too many weak draws that he can have here that only pay you off when they hit, but won't do much if you check. You can also pretty frequently get bad raises from Ax that peeled. Basically I don't think there are many hands that would fold to a bet here that would bet.

Yeah, you're probably right. It just felt that he's going to fold majority of his hands and that he's going to play passively even he has an Ace, but bet when checked to. Don't know.

In any case, betting is definitely not the wrong play and probably the best.

You speculate about the hand where you opened with A2o and got check-raised on a Ace high board and get donked on the turn when another Ace hit. While I don't have any experience in midstakes, other than seeing videos of those games, I think the villain's play with broadway gutshot is basically just spewing. I mean, it's fine to take a shot at a Ace high board against a steal from time to time, but when you 3-bet and he donks, I think it's just a bit too much. Therefore I don't think you need to protect your hand or charge gutshots on the turn, because it's basically just bluff at that point and want him to continue bluffing. So here a passive line works well in my opinion.

20:00, a player opens on the CO and you have K8o on the BB. It's not a great hand, but I would still defend with it against a steal. CO/BTN ranges are so wide that K8o is pretty decent equity-wise and it's also K high, which might win you some pots with just that. The player who opened was the player you know from NL so I can't be sure of his CO opening range, but I would still defend.

21:30 (or so), a player limps UTG (no, not again!) and you raise with J 8 on the button. More experienced players are probably going to say that this is OK, and I guess it might be, but I'm not willing to do it. It's not a huge difference to, say, JTs, that I would feel more comfortable iso-raising, but I guess this is one of those border-line situations. But, you do have the position and a hand that plays well multi-way too if the blinds come along.

Flop comes 8 3 5 . SB checks, UTG limper bets out and you correctly raise. Like you said, you're most probably ahead here and you need to charge draws here and drop live 6 outers hopefully. SB cold-calls two and UTG calls. Turn is 7 and they both check. I think your play of bet/folding here is the right one, though I think for some portion of the time, you'd have to be willing to make call-downs on these spots too. But SB's hand just does look like a made flush so much and there's a player behind him to act that might as well have a made flush, therefore SB is less likely to raise here as a semi-bluff. The effectiveness of semi-bluffs go way down in limit hold'em if you have two opponents as opposed to just one.

If these analyses are supposed to be some sort of advertising to become a guest coach or something, it's working on me (not that I have any say in the matter). You're pretty much dead-on with all of this and it's very helpful to have you assist in analyzing these hands. Thanks a lot for your contribution.

These analyses are mostly just a learning experience for me and if they help you at all, it's all bonus.