Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

Either way I'm not bluffing here because as much fun as it is to think about, I think going GTO is a waste here because playing exploitatively > playing unexploitably vs monkeys.

Rob

I think this is very close to correct. Never bluffing is definitely better than bluffing all flush draws and all QT combos, like I suggested earlier.

I also like jamming combo-draws here. Raising and capping are close in EV (in a vacuum), but it helps to keep your ranges more diverse. Now we can have a strait, and a flush whenever we raise and and the draw hits. As well as have those when we just call the flop with QTo stuff and other flush draws.

Either way I'm not bluffing here because as much fun as it is to think about, I think going GTO is a waste here because playing exploitatively > playing unexploitably vs monkeys.

This

I have all the respect in the world for guys like KPR, Hoss and DrOlson (and DeathDonkey) and what they have accomplished. They are freaking monsters!

But worrying about GTO and balance in this spot is just silly. Exploit the one that let themselves be exploited. Then go back to GTO when you play 1k/2k HUHU vs PA.

At times his PF play isn't even close to being defensible, but his postflop play is probably better than the majority of the posters in this thread. He is far from a "monkey", and there's no doubt he started out as a typical 20/16 2+2 TAG like the rest of us.

This surprises me a bit. I agree that his PF play is way out of line more often than not but I also believe he seems to be picking on the right ones.

Postflop I disagree as well. I am not saying he is a retard but he is definetely exploitable. Or else he has just been tilting in the few hands I played with him. Maybe I was getting to him but I am pretty sure I noticed quite a few plays where I thought: wow thats bad, oh and thats bad as well.

a view from the cheap seats.

1) lets try to find more stuff/hands like this to keep Kpr, DD, Oink, Entity and the rest of you guys at each others throats,
its extremely educational and way fun for the rest of us.

2) seems to me if you play with this high variance guy, you need to make a two more bet call preflop even though your hand is likely dominated, otherwise dont you just get run over here? course the SB tag is a problem. but the BB's range is so wide, I think calling two more is ok and neccesary. or maybe tighten up a little more vs this guys BB.

3) the flop raise is interesting but what is your target considering the flop? 44-99? Ax is never folding..
Kx maybe but thats not folding often as it has a similar GS as you. Qx same. I dont think your target is big enough.

4) this hand looks a lot worse if SB plays his hand correctly and 3 bets the flop. this turns your balanced flop raise into spew, not to mention BB should consider bailing at this point also, leaving you with maybe 5 outs HU vs an ace getting no pot odds cause you folded out the wrong guy. in reality you had 3 outs.
if the Ace was a 8, I like your flop raise a lot more. But a huge capped pot with an ace on the board, its hard to move anyone.

5) I think your plan is fine vs BB's range, but you are not considering SB's range enough IMO.
the amount of FE you need to gain to make this play +EV is not attainable here.
You need more hand equity/strength or way more FE.

post some more...

3) the flop raise is interesting but what is your target considering the flop? 44-99? Ax is never folding..
Kx maybe but thats not folding often as it has a similar GS as you. Qx same. I dont think your target is big enough.

You are looking at bluffing in a whole different way. The purpose of bluffing here is not to pick up the pot, it's to force people to call down hands like 44-99 in this spot. And with people calling down light, you'll earn a more on your valuebets. So these weak pairs are my target, I just don't care if they fold or call down. Bluffs in a GTO strategy are actually break-even by definition.

And the fact that bluffs rarely work here makes me bluff less, but not never. But these gutters (like QTo) are bad hands to raise here, as you'll often put in 3 or 4 bets on the flop with a serious equity deficit. Something like Tc9c like Kyle suggested is much better, as you don't have odds to call a raise (with draw domination and boat redraws).

Excellent thread guys.

Kyle, I will gladly teach you how to solve a Rubik's Cube (written instructions / Skype / video - however you want) if you will make a video or two for DC.

Excellent thread guys.

Kyle, I will gladly teach you how to solve a Rubik's Cube (written instructions / Skype / video - however you want) if you will make a video or two for DC.

If you'd be willing to do a video on this I'd be willing to put it up on a random Sunday.



Rob

If you'd be willing to do a video on this I'd be willing to put it up on a random Sunday.



Rob

Together with a video by Kyle on GTO strategy that would make for the most educational sunday ever, at least for the math geeks among us.

But I'd also take another episode of the Homegame