Homofürst
80 posts
Joined 10/2008
Time Link to 00:04:03
What do you think about bluffraising the River here?
Since that Hand is probably right at the bottom of our range here and since there are so many draws coming in I like it to get hands like KT, AK,K9, T9 to fold . Not sure if that might not be enough Kombos tho and idf he even folds these hands
Posted 11 months ago
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Homofürst
80 posts
Joined 10/2008
Homofürst
80 posts
Joined 10/2008
Time Link to 00:14:49
Is calling in the SB with 85o vs a MP2 limper and a pretty aggro guy in teh BB standard for you?
I think its too weak to call preflop especially keeping in mind that BB is pretty aggro and therefore will either raise quite a bit preflop or bets the flop at least a fair percentage of the time.
However if we are even c/c c/f a pair, what hands can we credibly peel on the flop and not fold on the turn ( under the assumptions that we're donking or c/r our vast majority of Kx hands or better) and thinking that BB would raise hands like KT-AK, probably any PP >55. SO I think a CD on blanks would be better to prevent Villain from having an easy time just betting twice ( ok not sure if he'll find out about that)
Would you still c/c if BB checks and MP2 bets or would you c/r instead?
Posted 11 months ago
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Homofürst
80 posts
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Time Link to 00:18:51
So you're saying your checking any hand on that Turn?
Don't you think that betting the Turn might be better to induce bluffraises on the A? ( sure I know it's player dependant but against a default somewhat aggro reg)
Or do you think that this does'nt outweight the resulting difficulties to tweak our range that our check isnt' a c/f and our bet isn't only a b/3bet?
Posted 11 months ago
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Homofürst
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Time Link to 00:22:50
would you therefore also raise with a PP and then check behind the Turn a decent amount of time ( since Villain then is most liekly to either c/r with an Ax or to fold with 6outer which might call a riverbet)?
or do yo think that getting a 6 outer to fold is better than giving a freecard with the intension to call every River?
You are probably going to "balance" that play by also raising with KQ etc as a "bluffcatcher" to check the turn and call any River, right?
Posted 11 months ago
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Homofürst
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Time Link to 00:30:12
you say that bluffraising would be a bad timing. But our perceived range improves pretty often on the Turn. Most of teh time me make a flush and he could fold Pairs without a Spade.
Sure we would raise most of our Ax and Kx hands preflop so we don't have ´the nut or 2nd nutflush that often but still we have the Qsx and Jsx flush in our range.
what would you do with the Asx and Ksx here? would you call the turn to raise the river or prefer raising directly? Is there abig difference between Asx and say Ksx, Qsx or Jsx?
Or let me put it that way what flush would you need to 3bet the Turn (River) in Sb's shoes?
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Homofürst
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Psychobingo
1358 posts
Joined 03/2008
What do you think about bluffraising the River here?
Since that Hand is probably right at the bottom of our range here and since there are so many draws coming in I like it to get hands like KT, AK,K9, T9 to fold . Not sure if that might not be enough Kombos tho and idf he even folds these hands
In general i dont think this is that good of an idea. In theory sure, but youre asking for him to fold a king getting like 9:1, not to mention that that particular river just smacks his entire semibluffing range.
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Psychobingo
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Would you fold a Hand like A8o or A9o or QJo preflop?
Since most likely your dominated by one player and the other one has a PP. ANd sometimes one has AK-AJ and the other one a high PP and your crushed.
I dont open A8o utg and rarely A9o, and if i did open A9o it would be for almost the sole purpose of playing a pot against either of the blinds, in which case i wouldnt fold even if im likely to be dominated. Would probably play pretty cautiosly.
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Psychobingo
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Is calling in the SB with 85o vs a MP2 limper and a pretty aggro guy in teh BB standard for you?
I think its too weak to call preflop especially keeping in mind that BB is pretty aggro and therefore will either raise quite a bit preflop or bets the flop at least a fair percentage of the time.
However if we are even c/c c/f a pair, what hands can we credibly peel on the flop and not fold on the turn ( under the assumptions that we're donking or c/r our vast majority of Kx hands or better) and thinking that BB would raise hands like KT-AK, probably any PP >55. SO I think a CD on blanks would be better to prevent Villain from having an easy time just betting twice ( ok not sure if he'll find out about that)
Would you still c/c if BB checks and MP2 bets or would you c/r instead?
Not sure if you misread the action or what, but if its the hand on the river i defended for 1 raise with 34s vs utg raise and an aggro player iso`ed in late position, in which case i would play tons of suited and connected hands. 85o would be right on the cusp i guess, i would always fold 84o and always call 86o, but given that i know the raiser to be very aggressive and sd bound and people who limp utg ususally arent that good, i dont have a problem defending. Also the utg player had shown to be pretty passive and honest so far, meaning i could probably use my relative position and shut him out of the flops i liked with a cr, also knowing that the preflop raiser always c-bets 3handed.
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Homofürst
80 posts
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Time Link to 00:33:48
I like raising the flop here aswell (especially since we won't turn a bluffcatcher into a bluff like it might look on the first sight). I'm just not sure how to preoceed on future streets if SB folds and we're HU against BB, would you check back alot of turn ( any Turn except a 4,5,7,9) ? and what would you do on an A? b/ca since villain most likely donked out with an A or just b/ca since it's the only Ax < than two pair that can call down or do you think about checking the turn and calling any river ( or maybe even raising the river against a pair).
What do you think Villain should do on an A holding an A: donking out or c/r?
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Psychobingo
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So you're saying your checking any hand on that Turn?
Don't you think that betting the Turn might be better to induce bluffraises on the A? ( sure I know it's player dependant but against a default somewhat aggro reg)
Or do you think that this does'nt outweight the resulting difficulties to tweak our range that our check isnt' a c/f and our bet isn't only a b/3bet?
Not checking every hand on that turn, but its a good balance play with some value hands, since its a card we should check with alot of our range because its just so likely to hit our opponents range. So the hands that DD mentioned in the video are great candidates for sometimes checkraising again, simply because a) some villains might blind bet here with hands that dont have an ace but still beats our 4 high (like QJ KT etc), and b) not everybody raises every Ax combo on this turn when we bet. Ofcourse if you know that your opponent raises every single top pair and some flopped slowplayes no matter what, then you should happily bet looking to 3bet with all your value hands. But thats when i gets tricky what to do with your 89s and 45s etc, which is why checkraising is a great mixup play sometimes. Im not so sure that all too many people bluffraise this spot either.
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Psychobingo
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would you therefore also raise with a PP and then check behind the Turn a decent amount of time ( since Villain then is most liekly to either c/r with an Ax or to fold with 6outer which might call a riverbet)?
or do yo think that getting a 6 outer to fold is better than giving a freecard with the intension to call every River?
You are probably going to "balance" that play by also raising with KQ etc as a "bluffcatcher" to check the turn and call any River, right?
I think youre misunderstanding the concept here. When we have a bluffcatching type of hand like a medium pp and strong highcard hands like KQ in position here, we shouldnt be raising since our primary target with those hands on this kind of board would be to induce bluffs from our opponent. We could/possibly should raise alot of our strong value hands along with some weak backdoor semibluffs, hands like any ace or three, and stuff like 45s, 46s, 56s, hands that have little equity now but can continue semibluffing if we catch something on the turn. When we play some of our hands like that it becomes pretty hard for our opponent to continue from the flop if he has something like QT, KJs or whatever. Most people just blindly call the flop raise because wtf how can anybody raise something on this board, and then they fold ALOT of turns. This isnt really the type of board that we should be floating in position simply because its so easy to be drawing almost dead to any Ax, and we will so often just get barreled on the turn anyway.
What to do when we`re out of position is something else, i think like DD said we should be checking ALOT of our range on the turn when he does call the flop.
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Psychobingo
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you say that bluffraising would be a bad timing. But our perceived range improves pretty often on the Turn. Most of teh time me make a flush and he could fold Pairs without a Spade.
Sure we would raise most of our Ax and Kx hands preflop so we don't have ´the nut or 2nd nutflush that often but still we have the Qsx and Jsx flush in our range.
what would you do with the Asx and Ksx here? would you call the turn to raise the river or prefer raising directly? Is there abig difference between Asx and say Ksx, Qsx or Jsx?
Or let me put it that way what flush would you need to 3bet the Turn (River) in Sb's shoes?
I dont care that much for bluffraising this board. Im going to be semibluffraising alot of my 1 spade hands on the flop and alot of my pairs as well, and when some passive straight forward guy bets twice on this kind of board im pretty happy just to let him have it. If youre gonna bluffraise every single time the board gets scary, its going to get very expensive and get you very little credit and it would make your bluffcatching range almost equal to nothing.
Posted 11 months ago
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