Mid/High Stakes Limit Hold'em Poker Forums

So its saturday morning and for some reason there are no yellow chip games going(6-12/8/16) i walk around for an hour and wait. Only to notice two of the biggest fish I play with in my normal games are playing the 20. Lucky for me there is an open seat directly to the left of one of them. So anyways these fish are fish in the way that they will call down any pair,draw,high card. They both usually just check and call all the way to the river tough. There are both totally incapable of hand reading and are not even remotely thinking players. I should also add that there is one very good tag in this game who I try to avoid like the plague when he enters a hand. I should also mention that this is the first time I have ever played in a game this high. I have played the 15/30 a quite a few times but that game is over now that they started to spread this 20.

So anyway.

Utg+1 ( the good tag as mentioned) opens, Bad loose player cold calls. I look down and see J J and 3! from the button. SB folds and BB (other mentioned bad player) 4 bets. UTG+1 calls. MP calls. I just call.

My thoughts on this hand are that utg+1 has something pretty marginal or I think he would be 3 betting. Its probably something like 2 offsuit broadways up to KQ or a pocket pairs 55-99. The Mp player could really almost have any 2 at this point. 56s+ 22+j8+q8+k5+ a2+ and I'd be willing to bet all the money in the world that the bb has aces or kings. I would throw queens in there if he was on tilt which is possible but really thats about it. I've never seen him do anything with ak but cold call and open if no one has entered by the time it gets to him.


Flip

9 J 7

BB bets, Utg+1 folds, MP calls, I raise, BB snap 3! Mp calls, I raise, bb caps mp calls i call.

My thoughts on this are that I'm was planning on raising any turn and getting the MP stuck between us two.

Turn

Q

BB bets, MP calls, I raise, BB snap raises, MP calls, I tank and just call.

My thoughts on this street is that I did not want to spew in any more money if I was behind or dump in a bunch and get sucked out on the river. I"m starting to draw slimmer and slimmer here against the MP and it is possible that the bb has qq. I also did not want to re open the betting to the bb as there is a 5 bet cap. I did however, plan on raising the river on any non, a k 10 or

River

K

BB bets, Mp folds. I call.

Ok, So what I'm wondering if this is the right line I should be taking or if I just took a scared money line. Am I supposed to be 4 betting that turn for value? Do I ever raise the river?

Pretty easy raise on the turn. Your ahead of MP and even if BB's range is only QQ-AA, there's 3 combos of QQ and 12 combos of KK & AA.

As played, I think the river call is fine given your read, but would raise if MP called.

Thanks for the reply man, Ive been grilling this one over for a few days. I really think I got scared to put in that much action on a big street. I guess that's why I need to stick to 6/12 and 8/16 games though. But I think your right and that most likely the standard play. Do you ever cap the flop or of though?

I think if you have 2 crazy players between you and the TAG who is playing oop, capping pre and on the flop isn't going to send up any red flags. On the turn the only hand you are losing to is exactly QQ, K10 and 10.8 aren't in that taggy UTG players hand, so you can put him on AK+, QQ, KK, AA and safely say your set is ahead of almost his entire range except the 3 ways of making a higher set. K on the river is not a great card of course, but it still doesn't change his river play and lets you get more value out of the turn when you were most likely way ahead.

On the river I would think AA is check calling, so that bet probably means you are beat but what can you do!

Pretty easy raise on the turn. Your ahead of MP and even if BB's range is only QQ-AA, there's 3 combos of QQ and 12 combos of KK & AA.

As played, I think the river call is fine given your read, but would raise if MP called.

Yep, raise the turn for sure, just call river. Just look at it as simple combinatorics with a bad player caught in between who can't fold. You have a HUGE overlay and you're ahead of a range of AA/KK/QQ/AXcc by a HUGE margin. Even if you say he's never got AQcc, AKcc, AJcc, or 99 here and would only play AA/KK like this 50% of the time, you've still got too much equity to not be raising.

Rob

I think I'd be raising the turn because the amount of equity you have here is huge and it's really hard to go wrong when you have this much equity. Having the pot size by street would be nice my quick glance there 18SB in pre and another 12sb on the flop meaning there's 15BB in on the turn then 24BB on the river.

As played this river really sucks so I think I'd just be calling.

Wanted to comment on your plan to raise a safe river, I think that plan is very foolish, the big fish calling all bets in the middle almost certainly has a draw, you are in good shape, yes you can get sucked out on but you are a big money favorite, he will not put in any bets on the river, you need to get the max on the turn.

I wouldn't argue with the analysis here. I would just say by the way you describe the hand it sounds like you are running scared - perhaps playing beyond your bank roll?
This is not a fun way to play poker imo. I think its fine to follow the fish to higher stakes if (1) you can afford to run bad/have a strict stop-loss (2) The size of the stakes don't make you play sub-optimally.