No real reads on Villain except I saw him donk river with missed straight draw when 3flush hit.

Full Tilt Poker $30/$60 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with K K
1 fold, MP raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP calls

Flop: (7.5 SB) 4 8 5 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP calls

Turn: (4.75 BB) A (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP calls

River: (6.75 BB) 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero ???


Also do you fold if you get check raise on the turn?

i check behind on the river. dont know if he calls the turn without an ace - if he just picked up the flushdraw on the turn he will fold to a riverbet. i dont check the turn because he could raise a lot of hands without an ace so i bet and hope he folds.
if i got c/r on the turn i think i would pay him of... im not a friend of giving up to a single overcard.

bet bet bet

regarding the turn: xrosswind is the only one making sense. If his range for calling our turn bet is so narrow where is the value? If there isn't enough value what's the harm in checking? The ace already hit, there are no more scare cards that can come on the end when we have KK, the pot is not that large, its heads up and we are in position. Pretty easy turn check in my opinion, though if you know villain better betting every street for value can't be that bad either. But if I did that, I certainly wouldn't be hoping villain folded to my turn bet! Betting when you are not bluffing hoping the villain will fold is pretty silly.

-DeathDonkey

regarding the turn: xrosswind is the only one making sense. If his range for calling our turn bet is so narrow where is the value? If there isn't enough value what's the harm in checking? The ace already hit, there are no more scare cards that can come on the end when we have KK, the pot is not that large, its heads up and we are in position. Pretty easy turn check in my opinion, though if you know villain better betting every street for value can't be that bad either. But if I did that, I certainly wouldn't be hoping villain folded to my turn bet! Betting when you are not bluffing hoping the villain will fold is pretty silly.

-DeathDonkey

I agree. DD, I am having much trouble with "the non-logical" part of villains range.
in all hands, not just this one.
as in this hand, villain has 22, it kinda makes sense, in that he calls beating AK type hands,
and any pair is a big hand to some.
Is that how I handle it?
1st figre out what is logical to me,
then what is logical if we stretch it some..
then what is logical to the slightly nuts?

I mean, I suggest betting the turn here as its brave to not fear the ace,
which when giving the actual hands is correct.
But does not make sense given my thoughts on a logical turn calling range.

please help.

if you bet the turn you should bet/fold because we are getting the wrong effective odds. He should play and have an ace like this more than 4/5 times we do get checkraised vs the number of flushdraws available.

However I think not betting the turn is probably best like others said. He didn't cr flop so we can discount a lot of lower pocket pairs at least somewhat, so we aren't missing 2 streets of value THAT often by checking.

Also, there should be a lot of combos of hands like T9 J9 QT KJ that are not drawing dead against you that you can either allow to catch a pair on the river or might induce a bluff from. Also, if you bet you may induce a fold from a lower pocket pair which would suck.

Against an unknown I just valuecheck turn. Good spot imo. He peels wide on the flop but now he has to fold QJ, J9 etc etc. If we check we can get a bet out of those. Checkking also prevents bet/folding or bet/calling which both sucks.


As played I think you have the best hand tos on the river. Rivered straights would often donk and Ax would often c/r turn. Flopped sets and two pairs are also out of the question. So he looks like som marginal hand like 98s, T8s, K8s, K6s or whatever. I dont think it would be bad if he shows down weaker pairs here but a lot of players will just convince themselves to fold. So I doubt you have that much value.

OP, you said you made a note that he had 22 so you should value bet thinner, but 22 is one of the worst hands he can have on that board and with this sequence, so who's to say he's not savy enough to fold the river?

Also, while I am having a hard time deciding what hands the HJ should continue with here (that didn't also kr the flop), I'm not sold that checking the turn is the best play for BTN. I suspect that the optimal strategy for the entire hand would definitely include a larger value-bet region than just top pair here. Perhaps the HJ should have a tough decision with K-hi, or at least be peeling the turn intending to fold the river in order to induce bluffs. How does checking behind with all other pairs besides Ax effect HJ's decision to bluff us later? I suppose he still has a few better hands he can force to fold (like Q hi or J hi) if he has a weak draw, but he can definitely give up if we call.

OK my head hurts now from so much abstract thinking.