April 20, 2012
Something that tilts me really hard
Recently I've played lower a few times for the purpose of study and also for people to sweat me. There's a particular thing that I've been finding just sends me on extreme tilt and I'm not entirely sure of the reasons why so I'd like to try the advice in Tendler's book and see if writing about it helps.
So not aided by the fact that HEM2 is an excruciatingly buggy piece of software that really should still be in beta and not in release I'm starting off my session already a bit pre-tilted. This obviously doesn't help my overall mindset and is making it easier for me to get tilted by other stuff. So here's a perfect hand that would tilt me really hard:
Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1737028
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter
BTN: $15.00 - VPIP: 6, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 17
SB: $13.11 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 29, 3B: 50, AF: 3.0, Hands: 7
Hero (BB): $52.07 - VPIP: 33, PFR: 27, 3B: 10, AF: 2.8
UTG: $13.37 - VPIP: 9, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 11
MP: $30.87 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 10, 3B: 0, AF: 2.5, Hands: 80
CO: $87.73 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 21, 3B: 5, AF: 2.0, Hands: 52
Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with 5
5
4 folds, SB raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.25
Flop: ($1.00) 8
Q 6(2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25
Turn: ($1.50) 5
(2 players)
SB bets $2.00, Hero raises to $4.75, SB calls $2.75
River: ($11.00) A(2 players)
SB bets $7.61, Hero calls $7.61
Final Pot: $26.22
SB shows A A
Hero shows 5 5
SB wins $25.04
(Rake: $1.18)
So like say a hand like this happens and some other hand where my top set gets beaten by quads happen like in short succession. Now if I'm playing vs better opponents who take a decent line and I get coolered I'm like "ok cooler whatever" and I pretty much don't think twice about it. I just move on and whatever doesn't really bug me that much.
But something about when someone (especially a bad player) takes a particularly retarded value minimization line just really tilts me. I know logically that's it's good that they aren't winning more money off me because of how they play but at the same time I find myself tilted by this. Even when I'm not in the hand I find some of these value minimization lines tilting. Maybe a thought along the lines of "If I was that guy I would have won ... more in that spot.".
This leads me onto the main crux of why I'm posting this, sometimes I find myself thinking along these lines "he has a bunch of air to get to this spot and this line is so amazingly horrifically bad for a value line that I'm going to look it up", usually I do this with like strongish hands but like I seem unable to fold the top of my range in these spots. Sure he can get there with a bunch of air but it doesn't matter if his river minbet donk/min3bet line is stupid I have to fold my bluff catcher. Especially when I'm tilting I just can't seem to get it through my head that some people really suck at poker and can take these bad lines for value with the immortal nuts and find myself paying it off too much (2nd nuts included), this then leads to other forms of tilt and well tilting isn't a good thing...
At some level I know that other people think about poker very differently to me as I'm good at adjusting and whatnot but I find it really really hard to adjust to the really bad reg-fish, it's not as though they are completely unthinking players but they think about the game badly and in such a way I just find I have no comprehension whatsoever of what they are doing. I can see from a theory point of view that I should probably be changing my lines up and I can do it when I'm not tilted by when I'm tilted all that starts to suffer really bad.
Anyway this whole thing bugs me a lot and I'd like to not get so tilted by it in the future, if anyone has any suggestions/advice here I'd love to hear it.
Looks like it's a good time to do that mental game coaching with Tendler!
8 Comments:
Steppin Razor posted on April 21, 2012 at 00:22 AM
My suggestion is to stop playing low stakes games if this bothers you. I can understand it, you get annoyed as a professional/competent player that there are people who are crapping on your profession with their lousy play. I can picture Michael Jordan watching a bunch of kids playing basketball who refuse to learn anything. Eventually he gets up and walks away in disgust. That seems to be what you're feeling.
Try to be thankful these idiots have money and don't mind you charging them that money for crapping all over the game you love.
mitch posted on April 21, 2012 at 04:20 AM
Janis, I don't think poker is for you.
Best of luck!
kerwinty posted on April 21, 2012 at 08:15 AM
u can crush obv 25 nl, but lines never make sense, random bluffs/or stabs sometimes means nuts, sometimes means air. I suggest following your guy\t in evry close situation and see how it rurns out. After all, you are down here to learn.
BaseMetal posted on April 21, 2012 at 11:50 AM
Try some play money games you can improve your 1000+bb shove fold game that way ;)
MaskedManQc posted on April 21, 2012 at 12:56 PM
I know exactly what you mean...
It often tilts me when I get beat by bad players that make things that makes no sense to me...
I am reading the "The poker mindset" at the moment, this is helpful for sure. I also try to have a schedule and play when I feel I am mentaly ready and I leave early if I feel I will tilt (at least I try!).
Guess you already listen to Tommy Angelo's series?
In short, I play ABC poker vs these players as much as possible...
shuttle posted on April 21, 2012 at 14:20 PM
Btw its not just a low stakes thing, this same thing seems to bother me at all stakes including stakes where its significantly large money. It's just something that tilts me and I'd like to not be tilted by it.
MaskedManQc posted on April 21, 2012 at 21:06 PM
Keep your ego away from the tables, I think this is the best think I can tell you to avoid this kind of tilt. This is one major thing I am trying to do myself and that I read in "The poker mindset". If you can work on that, it will definitely help you (hopefuly) to tilt less.
Also, don't take it personaly, they are just playing in a way that makes sense to them. In the long run, because of that, you should easily crush them, if you keep playing your A game...
GL
Schweig posted on April 22, 2012 at 05:02 AM
You are tilted because you applied logic "it's a bad line for value" to make the call and then that logic turned out to be incorrect.
The key problem is not that he did something bad, but it threw a spanner in your logic, something that most poker players value above all - that their logic is strong and their decisions are correct.
Correcting is not simple, because it would introduce a level of uncertainty into the situation that previously didn't exist. You were sure of your logic before you made the call, and now you are unsure.
You now have to question your logic, so there is uncertainty. You have to find a new way of evaluating the situation in the future, which is also another source of uncertainty.
I imagine that you came up with this logic "it's a bad line for value" is because it's a thought process that you can understand - it's a thought process that you would make in his shoes. It is simple and certain to apply your own thought processes to your opponents. It is a lot harder to guess what his thought processes might be. The human brain wishes to simplify these decisions so it will cling to the former.
I think the solution, therefore, is to figure out if your logic is actually flawed, and if it is, then firstly accept that you will sometimes make mistakes like this, then realise that the most important thing is learning from the mistake and using it to find better logic.
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