December 05, 2010
I Can't Chip Riffle
I've been playing live a good deal lately. I don't know why I started in particular, some people I've been working on a separate poker project mentioned the Fox Poker Club in London and I wondered why I hadn't played more live. I guess it never really occurred to me. I met up with a student of mine and went there for the first time and from there it's snowballed nicely. I've played a little at the Empire, but mainly at the Fox Club and lately The Vic. Friendly as the Fox Club is, they just don't run high enough games. I'll be spending a lot of time at The Vic from now on.
In some ways I wish I had started playing live sooner, but I think now is actually the perfect time for me. I feel my game is better than it has ever been and that is a good place to be when starting out live where my biggest worry is that I make an accidental string bet. I feel it is extremely quick and easy to gain reads live, vs having a table of regs with similar stats and knowing who is playing certain spots differently. First of all, the vast majority of the table live will be fish and most of the time the regs will be fish too. The live reg donk is a character I have come to know and love in the short time I've been playing live and can quickly be spotted by their strange obsession with protecting their hands and betting/raising for information. I present two scenarios vs two different live regs:
1. I have 64s in the BB and live reg makes it 4x from MP. It's folded to me. I'm not sure yet if villain is a live reg or a good reg (I realise it's possible to be both, but just assume if I'm typing live reg, I also mean donk), but importantly he is not a recreational player. I 3bet 3x and he calls. Flop is A Q 4r and I bet slightly under 1/2 pot. He raises 2.5x. I shove and he folds and shows JJ.
2. I open KQs in EP and CO calls, everyone else folds. Flop is 9 4 4r. I bet slightly over 1/2 pot and he makes it 2x my bet. I make it 2x his raise and he stares at me for 5 minutes before folding and showing 77.
How is it these live players come to learn to play this way? I honestly don't know and would like to know.
I was playing live last night and a recreational player sat to my left who had been routinely donating to everyone asked the table if anyone played online. Everyone said no so I said no too. He said he used to, but that all online sites were rigged to make him lose on the river. If I had an urge to speak up it was only for a microsecond. But hey, he can do really cool chip tricks. I can only shovel them around like a hamfisted oaf.
11 Comments:
sforzisi posted on December 05, 2010 at 16:49 PM
It's difficult to make a pear and they don't like to be bluffed into folding one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QH0IA8AD6M
http://itunes.apple.com/app/poker-journal/id300726038?mt=8#
corkeye posted on December 05, 2010 at 18:07 PM
Fact, most players that do sick chip tricks are absolute donks.
They try and emulate Tom Dwan by protecting their bb with 6
corkeye posted on December 05, 2010 at 18:08 PM
high
sorry accidently pressed return
QED42 posted on December 05, 2010 at 18:29 PM
Is there a good summary of what sorts of cash games run in the london card rooms/casinos or would you be kind enough to give us a short review?
inavacuum posted on December 05, 2010 at 21:32 PM
I can only really comment on the places I've been, The Fox Club, Empire and Vic. The Empire is good for the passing trade due to its location but seemed a bit all over the place when I went in, possibly just caught them on a bad day. The Fox Club is good for the most part but has terrible dealers and only tends to run cash up to 1/2. The Vic always seems to have a game running (don't try going to the Fox Club early on a week day) and runs from 1/1 up to high. Very well run, good dealers, sometimes not as soft as elsewhere, but definitely first port of call.
delcrossb posted on December 06, 2010 at 02:47 AM
The trick is to set the chips next to each other, then press the outside of each stack. They just riffle themselves from that point. It really only works on felt.
Another good one to work on is where you take 3 chips, cradle them in your middle, index, and ring finger. Use your thumb to bring the front chip to the back by sort of flipping it over. That'll give you a good sense of chip dexterity.
QED42 posted on December 07, 2010 at 13:52 PM
Thanks for the over view inavacuum.
Drshoe posted on December 07, 2010 at 17:03 PM
where abouts do you play? I might head down to fox or the vic sometimes this weekend
infire posted on December 10, 2010 at 09:23 AM
I see this type of action from microstakes fish online as well, and I wish I understood it. Since I suck, the illogic of it throws me for a loop and too often I just end up paying off light, so apparently it can somehow be a good play vs stationy tagfish such as myself.
inavacuum posted on December 10, 2010 at 09:32 AM
I do, in some aspects anyway, understand WHY they make plays like described. It's because they are trying to protect their hand/buy a showdown. I can understand why fishier players at the micros would do this. But the people I were playing live were clearly not fish (in the classic sense) but seasoned live regs. What I don't know is how they come to learn to play that way (it's not from any kind of online training site or coach, unless there's a really really bad one out there I'm unaware of).
infire posted on December 17, 2010 at 23:16 PM
I'm guessing it's a combination of having observed and talked to others who do this and thinking that their hand is sometimes good while not wanting to give up but not knowing how to best proceed? Just taking a stab.
Good observation on wanting to buy a showdown. I never really thought about that before, but it's sort of like that limit play where you raise a draw on the flop in order to see a river or whatever. Thanks, I feel enlightened. :)
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